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does, like Mr. Offman up there from Boston, he is painted
with the same brush here in this courtroom as you painted
Mr. Howd. Okay, let me finish my question.

How is that Mr. Oliver is with your group, your
group against the group, how is that sending out the
message?

A Mr. Howd and Mr. Offman are interchangeable,
they are part of the Office of Special Affairs. They are
different than Lisa McPherson, they are different than
any other public Scientologists. They are in a group
that is designed to go after people they consider
enemies.

Q It almost sounds as if you think of them as
machines, robots, is that what you are saying? Is that
the way you think of them, or do you think of them as
people?

A Like I said, I’ve got a lot a good friends who
used to be OSA, and former Scientologists are among the
nicest people that I have ever known in my life.

Q I am not talking about former Scientologists.

A I don’t believe that those Scientologists are
fully in control of their actions. I believe that their
actions are being controlled by someone else.

Q So, basically they don’t know any better, and
you are there to tell them what they need to think?