SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

BENT CORYDON, )

PLAINTIFF, ) CASE NO.

)

VS. ) C 694401

)

CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY ) VOLUME 1

) INTERNATIONAL, INC., ET AL., ) (PAGES 1-311)

DEFENDANTS. )

AND RELATED CROSS-ACTIONS.

DEPOSITION OF:

DAVID MISCAVIGE THURSDAY, JULY 19, 1990 10:05 A. M.

OUR FILE NO. 02266

REPORTED BY DAWSHA LAYLAND BAKER

C.S.R. NO. 5166

DEPOSITION OF DAVID MISCAVIGE, THE WITNESS, TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF, AT 10:05 A. M., THURSDAY, JULY 19, 1990, AT 2049 CENTURY PARK EAST, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, BEFORE

DAWSHA LAYLAND BAKER, C.S.R. NO. 5166, PURSUANT TO NOTICE.

APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL

FOR PLAINTIFF & CROSS-DEFENDANT: LAW OFFICES OF TOBY L. PLEVIN BY: TOBY L. PLEVIN,

ATTORNEY AT LAW

10700 SANTA MONICA BOULEVARD SUITE 4300

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90025

FOR DEFENDANTS & CROSS-COMPLAINANTS, RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER, SCIENTOLOGY MISSIONS INTERNATIONAL, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL, HEBER JENTZSCH AND TIMOTHY BOWLES:

WYMAN BAUTZER KUCHEL & SILBERT

BY: WILLIAM T. DRESCHER ESQ.

2049 CENTURY PARK EAST

15TH FLOOR

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90067

FOR DEFENDANT DAVID MISCAVIGE:

LAW OFFICES OF MICHAEL LEE HERTZBERG

BY: MICHAEL LEE HERTZBERG, ESQ.

740 BROADWAY

FIFTH FLOOR

NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10003

-- AND --

RABINOWITZ, BOUDIN, STANDARD,

KRINSKY & LIEBERMAN

BY: ERIC M. LIEBERMAN, ESQ.

740 BROADWAY AT ASTOR PLACE

NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10003-9518

FOR DEFENDANTS AUTHORS SERVICES, INC., AND BRIDGE PUBLICATIONS: TURNER, GERSTENFELD, WILK, TIGERMAN & HELLER

BY: LAWRENCE E. HELLER, ESQ.

8383 WILSHIRE BOULEVARD

SUITE 510

BEVERLY HILLS, CALIFORNIA 90211

ALSO PRESENT:

MARTY RATHMAN

INDEX

WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE

DAVID MISCAVIGE

BY MS. PLEVIN 6

(P.M. SESSION) 130

QUESTIONS INSTRUCTED BY COUNSEL NOT TO ANSWER

PAGE LINE PAGE LINE PAGE LINE

26 8 27 25 28 17

29 5 34 17 112 7

141 10 213 10 215 12

216 6 242 14 247 10

248 11

EXHIBITS

NO. PAGE DESCRIPTION

1 91 SEA ORGANIZATION FLAG ORDER, DATED 9-15-78

2 96 DOCUMENT ENTITLED "COMMODORE'S MESSENGER ORG"

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, JULY 19, 1990, 10:05 A. M.

DAVID MISCAVIGE, HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: EXAMINATION BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. PLEASE STATE YOUR FULL NAME FOR THE RECORD.

A. DAVID MISCAVIGE.

Q. AND MR. MISCAVIGE, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN DEPOSED BEFORE?

MR. DRESCHER: I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

BY MS. PLEVIN: Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN DEPOSED BEFORE?

A. NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q. I TRUST YOU'VE HAD SOME TIME TO CONFER WITH COUNSEL REGARDING DEPOSITION PROCEDURE?

A. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY "SOME TIME" OR "DEPOSITION PROCEDURE."

Q. WELL, HAVE YOU SPOKEN WITH MR. HERTZBERG ABOUT WHAT IS ABOUT TO TAKE PLACE TODAY?

MR. HERTZBERG: WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO INTO CONTENTS OF CONVERSATIONS. I THINK WE CAN SKIP THE PRELIMINARIES. I THINK MR. MISCAVIGE KNOWS ENOUGH ABOUT WHAT THE PROCEDURE IS SO WE CAN MOVE TO THE SUBSTANCE. MS. PLEVIN: I'D LIKE TO PUT THE ADMONITIONS ON THE RECORD.

MR. DRESCHER: IS THAT A TAPE RECORDER?

MS. PLEVIN: YES, IT IS.

MR. DRESCHER:IS THAT THE COURT REPORTER'S?

THE REPORTER:NO, SIR.

MR. DRESCHER: THAT'S A PRIVATE TAPE RECORDING BEING MADE?

MS. PLEVIN: THERE'S OTHER EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE.

MR. DRESCHER: IT WAS NOTICED FOR AUDIOTAPE AND THAT DOESN'T FIT THE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS WITHOUT THE REQUISITE ANNOUNCEMENT AND REQUISITE IDENTIFICATIONS SO TO THE EXTENT THAT'S AN AUDIOTAPE, AT THIS POINT IT'S STRICTLY INFORMAL. IS THAT THE PURPOSE FOR

IT?

MS. PLEVIN: YES. IT'S NOTICED PURSUANT TO STATUTE.

MR. DRESCHER: THE STATUTE REQUIRES CERTAIN FORMALITIES AND IT ALSO REQUIRES THAT IF IT'S TO BE USED FOR ANY PURPOSE, IT MUST BE DONE THROUGH AN INDEPENDENT NOTARY.

MS. PLEVIN: WELL, I'LL ASK THE COURT REPORTER TO TAKE CARE OF IT AND WE'LL GIVE HER PLENTY OF TIME TO DO IT AND WE'LL MAKE THE ANNOUNCEMENTS PURSUANT TO STATUTES ON THE RECORD AND ANY DIFFICULTIES THAT WE HAVE, WE'LL PROCEED WITH THE TAPE RECORDING IN THAT FASHION. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT THIS DEPOSITION IS BEING TAKEN PURSUANT TO NOTICE, THAT THE NOTICE INCLUDED A NOTICE OF INTENT TO USE AN AUDIOTAPE AND AN AUDIOTAPE IS PRESENT, AND THAT THE COURT REPORTER HAS BEEN REQUESTED TO HANDLE THE AUDIOTAPE PURSUANT TO STATUTE.

WE WILL NOW IDENTIFY OUR PRESENCE HERE FOR THE RECORD. LET'S START WITH THE COURT REPORTER.

MR. HERTZBERG: I WANT TO BE CLEAR ON THE CUSTODY OF THE TAPE, WHAT IS YOUR INTENTION WITH RESPECT TO CUSTODY OF THE TAPE?

MS. PLEVIN: THE CUSTODY OF THE TAPE ORIGINALLY GOES TO THE COURT REPORTER AND COPIES CAN BE MADE IF YOU SO DESIRE.

MR. HERTZBERG: ALL RIGHT. SO JUST SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR, THE TAPE IS GOING TO REMAIN AT ALL TIME -- THE ORIGINAL IS GOING TO REMAIN AT ALL TIMES IN THE CUSTODY OF THE COURT REPORTER? MS. PLEVIN: THAT IS MY INTENT.

MR. HERTZBERG: FINE.

THE REPORTER: DAWSHA BAKER OF KERNS AND GRADILLAS.

MS. PLEVIN: TOBY L. PLEVIN, COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFF. TO MY LEFT IS BENT CORYDON, PLAINTIFF. BENT, WOULD YOU SIMPLY IDENTIFY YOUR VOICE FOR THE RECORD.

MR. CORYDON: YES, BENT CORYDON.

MS. PLEVIN: BILL, WHY DON'T YOU START ON THAT END.

MR. DRESCHER: MY NAME IS WILLIAM DRESCHER OF WYMAN BAUTZER KUCHEL & SILBERT. I REPRESENT THE DEFENDANTS, RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY INTERNATIONAL, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY OF CALIFORNIA, SCIENTOLOGY MISSIONS INTERNATIONAL, HEBER JENTZSCH AND TIMOTHY BOWLES, AS WELL AS THE CROSS-COMPLAINANTS IN THIS ACTION. SEATED IMMEDIATELY TO MY LEFT IS MARTY RATHMAN. HE IS THE CORPORATE REPRESENTATIVE OF MY CLIENT, RTC.

MR. HELLER: LAWRENCE HELLER, LAW FIRM OF TURNER, GERSTENFELD WILK, TIGERMAN & HELLER, REPRESENTING AUTHORS SERVICES INC., AND BRIDGE PUBLICATIONS. MR. LIEBERMAN: ERIC M. LIEBERMAN, THE FIRM OF RABINOWITZ, BOUDIN, STANDARD, KRINSKY & LIEBERMAN IN NEW YORK. I'M HERE AS CO-COUNSEL TO MR. MISCAVIGE. MR. HERTZBERG: MICHAEL LEE HERTZBERG, NEW YORK, NEW YORK, COUNSEL FOR DAVID MISCAVIGE.

THE WITNESS: DAVID MISCAVIGE, AN INDIVIDUAL.

BY MS. PLEVIN: Q. MR. MISCAVIGE, SINCE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN DEPOSED BEFORE, I WILL GO THROUGH SOME BASIC INFORMATION REGARDING THIS PROCEDURE AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND IT FOR THE RECORD.

A. ALL RIGHT.

Q. AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, THERE IS A COURT REPORTER. SHE WILL BE TAKING DOWN QUESTIONS, ANSWERS AND ANYTHING THAT IS NOT TAKEN OFF THE RECORD EXPRESSLY. SHE WILL ALSO MARK THE TRANSCRIPTS -- I'M SORRY. SHE WILL ALSO MARK THE EXHIBITS, AND AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE DEPOSITION, SHE WILL PREPARE A TRANSCRIPT OF THE PROCEEDINGS HERE TODAY.

THAT TRANSCRIPT WILL BE FORWARDED TO YOU BY YOUR ATTORNEY FOR YOUR REVIEW. AT THAT TIME YOU CAN MAKE ANY CHANGES YOU THINK ARE NECESSARY TO YOUR TESTIMONY. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE BEEN PLACED UNDER OATH UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY, AND, THEREFORE, CHANGES MADE IN YOUR TESTIMONY MIGHT BE COMMENTED ON AT SOME APPROPRIATE TIME. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

A. YES.

Q. YOU NEED TO SPEAK FOR THE RECORD, AS THE COURT REPORTER CANNOT TAKE DOWN SHAKES OF THE HEAD AND SO FORTH, AND THAT COULD BE DONE IF SHE ATTEMPTED TO TAKE THAT DOWN, IT COULD BE A MISCONSTRUAL OF WHAT YOU INTENDED. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? A. YES.

Q. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE BEEN PLACED UNDER OATH UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY UNDER THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA?

A. YES.

Q. AND THAT THAT OATH HAS THE SAME FORCE AND EFFECT AS IF WE WERE IN A COURT OF LAW; IS THAT RIGHT? YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

A. I THINK SO, YES.

Q. OKAY. NOW, THE DEPOSITION WILL PROCEED SO LONG AS IS NECESSARY. THERE WILL BE BREAKS AS NECESSARY. IF YOU AT ANY TIME NEED A BREAK, PLEASE SAY SO. IF YOU NEED TO CONFER WITH COUNSEL, YOU MAY DO SO, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT PROCEDURE, THAT YOU MAY WANT TO TALK TO COUNSEL ABOUT, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO NOW OR AT ANY TIME.

A. RIGHT NOW?

Q. YES.

A. NO.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY REASON WHY YOU CANNOT PROCEED TODAY? A. NO.

Q. YOU CAN GIVE YOUR BEST TESTIMONY TODAY?

A. I'M HERE.

Q. YOU'RE NOT TAKING ANY MEDICATION OR UNDER ANY PHYSICAL PROBLEM THAT WOULD PREVENT YOU FROM FOCUSING IN AND HEARING CLEARLY? A. OF COURSE NOT.

MR. HERTZBERG: ARE YOU FINISHED WITH THE ADMONITIONS?

MS. PLEVIN: I THINK SO.

MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY. I WANT TO ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID IN ONE OF THE ADMONITIONS. YOU SAID THIS DEPOSITION IS GOING TO CONTINUE AS LONG AS NEEDED. THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT OUR POSITION OR OUR UNDERSTANDING. YOU NOTICED THIS DEPOSITION FOR TWO DAYS, TODAY AND TOMORROW. WE'RE HERE FOR THAT. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING IN CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD, THAT THE DEPOSITION WOULD BE A TWO-DAY DEPOSITION, AND THAT'S REFLECTED BY YOUR NOTICE, AND OUR POSITION, JUST SO THERE'S NO MISUNDERSTANDING, IS WE'RE WILLING TO PROCEED, AS THE DEPOSITION IS NOTICED, BUT WE'RE NOT HERE FOR SOME INDEFINITE EXERCISE.

MS. PLEVIN: SO NOTED. HOWEVER, DEPOSITIONS QUITE OFTEN TAKE LONGER THAN ANTICIPATED. YOU YOURSELF, I BELIEVE, NOTICED MR. CORYDON'S DEPOSITION WITH THE EXPRESS UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE TWO DAYS, THAT ARE NOW FIVE DAYS, AND ARE FAR FROM BEING FINISHED, SO I THINK THAT HOPEFULLY WE DO NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT ISSUE. IF WE DO SO, WE SHALL DO SO AT A LATER TIME.

MR. HERTZBERG: LET ME RESPOND TO YOUR LAST REMARK. I NOTICED MR. CORYDON'S DEPOSITION DAY-TO-DAY UNTIL COMPLETED AND NEVER REPRESENTED AT ANY TIME THAT IT WOULD BE COMPLETED WITHIN A SPECIFIED TIME SO I DON'T WANT YOUR COMMENT, WHICH IS INACCURATE AND INCORRECT, TO PASS UNNOTICED.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. MR. MISCAVIGE, DO YOU HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION? A. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT QUESTION MEANS.

Q. DID YOU GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL?

A. NO, I DIDN'T.

Q. WHAT IS THE LAST GRADE OF PUBLIC EDUCATION THAT YOU HAD, MR. MISCAVIGE? A. TENTH.

Q. AND WHERE WAS THAT?

A. PENNSYLVANIA.

Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY GED COURSES?

A. NO.

Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY CONTINUING EDUCATION COURSES OF ANY KIND?

A. OF COURSE.

MR. HERTZBERG: I'M NOT SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF PROBING INTO MR. MISCAVIGE'S EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND. HE TOLD YOU WHEN HIS FORMAL EDUCATION IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM CEASED, AND I'M NOT SURE WHY WE NEED TO INQUIRE INTO OTHER ASPECTS OF THAT AND CAN'T POSSIBLY IMAGINE IT RELATES TO THIS LAWSUIT.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY BUSINESS COURSES, MR. MISCAVIGE?

A. I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY COURSES IN COMMUNITY COLLEGES OR COLLEGES OR BUSINESS SCHOOLS REGARDING MANAGEMENT PRINCIPLES? A. YOU MEAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

Q. IN ANY SCHOOL.

A. I'M NOT SURE I GET IT YET.

Q. WHAT IS IT THAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, MR. MISCAVIGE?

A. WELL, I THINK I KNOW A LOT ABOUT BUSINESS, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ME.

Q. DID YOU EVER ENROLL IN ANY COURSES IN ANY BUSINESS SCHOOLS?

A. NO.

Q. DID YOU EVER ENROLL --

A. NO.

Q. OKAY. YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY?

A. YES.

Q. I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU, PLEASE, TO IDENTIFY, IF YOU WOULD, YOUR CHRONOLOGY OF YOUR POSTS AND POSITIONS IN ANY STAFF POSITION OR ORGANIZATIONAL POSITION IN ANY SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATION, STARTING FROM THE EARLIEST FORWARD OR FROM NOW BACKWARDS, WHICHEVER WAY YOU FEEL IS MORE CONVENIENT.

A. I'M NOT SURE I GET IT. TENURE? I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.

Q. OKAY. YOU HAVE BEEN ON STAFF WITH SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS FOR SOME TIME; IS THAT CORRECT? A. VARIOUS ONES, YES.

Q. OKAY. LET'S START WITH THE VERY FIRST STAFF POSITION YOU HELD AT ANY TIME.

A. OKAY.

Q. DO YOU RECALL WHAT THAT WAS?

A. AT ANY TIME?

Q. MM-HMM.

A. YES.

Q. WHAT WAS THAT POSITION?

A. AUDITOR.

Q. WHEN WERE YOU FIRST AN AUDITOR?

A. FIRST, 1972.

Q. AND WITH WHAT MISSION OR ORGANIZATION WERE YOU AN AUDITOR?

A. SAINT HILL, UNITED KINGDOM.

Q. AND FOR HOW LONG WERE YOU IN THAT POSITION?

A. I DIDN'T HAVE AN EXACT START AND FINISH. ON AND OFF --

MR. HERTZBERG: THAT'S --

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. HOW LONG WERE YOU AT SAINT HILL?

A. A YEAR THAT YEAR, BUT I WAS NOT AN AUDITOR THE WHOLE TIME.

Q. WHAT OTHER POSITIONS DID YOU HAVE?

A. PUBLIC SCIENTOLOGIST. EXCUSE ME, THERE WAS ONE OTHER POSITION. DTS, ACTING DTS.

Q. AND WOULD YOU STATE FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE, WHAT THAT MEANS?

A. DIRECTOR OF TECH SERVICES.

Q. NOW, PRIOR TO TAKING THE POSITION OF DIRECTOR OF TECH SERVICES, DID YOU DO ANY CHECK SHEETS OR COURSES OR TRAINING FOR THAT POSITION? A. NO.

Q. WHEN YOU COMMENCED THAT POSITION, DID YOU DO ANY TRAINING FOR THAT POSITION?

A. YES.

Q. AND WHAT WAS THAT TRAINING?

A. HAT TURNOVER.

Q. AND WOULD YOU EXPLAIN FOR THE RECORD WHAT A HAT TURNOVER IS?

A. THE HOLDER OF THAT POST BRIEFS YOU ON THAT POSITION. I WAS HOLDING IT TEMPORARILY WHILE SOMEBODY WAS ON VACATION.

Q. WERE THERE ANY OTHER PERIODS OF TIME DURING THAT FIRST YEAR THAT YOU WERE AT SAINT HILL, OTHER THAN AUDITOR AND DIRECTOR OF TECH SERVICES? A. NO.

Q. AFTER YOU LEFT SAINT HILL, DID YOU GO TO ANOTHER POST OR STAFF POSITION?

A. OF COURSE.

Q. WHERE DID YOU GO?

A. NUMEROUS PLACES.

Q. WHERE DID YOU FIRST GO?

A. FIRST PENNSYLVANIA.

Q. AND WHAT POSITION DID YOU TAKE IN PENNSYLVANIA WHEN YOU LEFT SAINT HILL IN APPROXIMATELY 1973?

A. SCHOOL CHILD.

Q. HOW OLD WERE YOU AT THE TIME?

A. 13 OR 14.

Q. WERE YOU ON LEAVE FROM SCHOOL DURING THE 1972 -- '73 YEAR WHILE YOU WERE AN AUDITOR AT SAINT HILL?

A. YES, I WAS. OH, WHILE I WAS AN AUDITOR. EXCUSE ME.

MR. HERTZBERG: I REALLY -- AS I INDICATED BEFORE, WE'VE COVERED THE EDUCATIONAL ASPECT OF THIS. NOW, I THINK THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING A POINT IN TIME WHICH PREDATES THE ALLEGATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT, AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT RELEVANCY MR. MISCAVIGE'S POSTS MAY HAVE TO THIS LAWSUIT.

MS. PLEVIN: LET THE RECORD REFLECT WHILE MR. HERTZBERG IS STATING HIS OBJECTION, THE WITNESS IS CONFERRING WITH OTHER COUNSEL THAT'S PRESENT.

WITH REGARD TO MR. HERTZBERG'S STATEMENT, I INTEND TO INQUIRE INTO MR. MISCAVIGE'S HISTORY IN ALL POSTS AND POSITIONS HE HAS HAD IN ANY ORGANIZATION OF SCIENTOLOGY, TO HAVE A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF HIS BACKGROUND, WHICH I'M CERTAINLY ENTITLED TO HAVE.

MR. HELLER: YOU'RE ENTITLED TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF HIS BACKGROUND, BUT WHEN YOU START GETTING INTO SUCH MINUTIAE, "WERE YOU ON LEAVE FROM JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL AT THAT TIME," THAT GOES BEYOND THE BALANCE OF BACKGROUND PERMISSIBILITY, AND YOU HAVE A CERTAIN WAY TO GO, BUT BEYOND THAT, I THINK YOU'RE GETTING TOO PARTICULAR.

MS. PLEVIN: IF YOU MAKE SUCH MINOR POINT, UNNECESSARY OBJECTIONS AT THIS STAGE, I'M QUITE CONCERNED YOU'RE GOING TO EAT UP A GREAT DEAL OF TIME UNNECESSARILY. I SUGGEST THAT WE PROCEED WITH THE DEPOSITION AND IF SUCH THINGS GET OUT OF HAND, WE CAN DEAL WITH THEM AT THAT TIME. I'M SIMPLY ATTEMPTING TO CREATE A CHRONOLOGY HERE AND DO NOT INTEND TO GET INTO EXTENDED BYPLAY ON THE RECORD.

MR. HELLER: I HAVE A SECOND QUESTION, IN THAT CASE, WHICH I CONSIDER TO BE TOO PARTICULAR, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.

MR. HERTZBERG: I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT WE'RE WASTING TIME --

MS. PLEVIN: MR. MISCAVIGE IS THE ONE WHO IDENTIFIED THAT HIS NEXT POST WAS A SCHOOL CHILD. THAT IS WHY I NEEDED TO ASK HIM ABOUT THAT. IF HE CONSIDERS THAT A POST, MR. HERTZBERG, I NEED TO ASK HIM ABOUT IT.

MR. HERTZBERG: LET ME FINISH MY STATEMENT WITHOUT BEING INTERRUPTED, PLEASE. MY CONCERN, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE ON, IS THAT WE NOT WASTE TIME WITH THINGS THAT REALLY DON'T HAVE TO DO WITH THE LAWSUIT. I'M INTERESTED IN ADDRESSING THE COMPLAINT AND I JUST DON'T SEE -- BUT LET'S PROCEED.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. AFTER YOU LEFT SAINT HILL, MR. MISCAVIGE, WHAT WAS THE NEXT POST YOU HELD WITH ANY STAFF, AS A STAFF MEMBER, OR WITH ANY ORG? A. SUPERVISOR.

Q. AND YOU WERE SUPERVISOR OF WHAT?

A. ACADEMY COURSE.

Q. AT WHAT MISSION OR ORG?

A. PHILADELPHIA.

Q. PHILADELPHIA? WHAT IS THE COMPLETE NAME, PLEASE?

A. ORG.

Q. AND HOW LONG WERE YOU SUPERVISOR AT THE ACADEMY FOR PHILADELPHIA ORG?

MR. HERTZBERG: DON'T GUESS. IF YOU DON'T RECALL, DON'T GUESS.

THE WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. DO YOU RECALL THE APPROXIMATE YEARS?

A. YES.

Q. WHAT WERE THEY?

A. 1975, I THINK. I'M NOT -- 1975, I BELIEVE.

Q. APPROXIMATELY ONE YEAR YOU WERE SUPERVISOR OF THE ACADEMY COURSE?

A. APPROXIMATELY A FEW WEEKS.

Q. AND WHAT WAS THE NEXT POSITION YOU HAD WITH ANY ORG OR WHATEVER STAFF POSITION YOU HAD?

MR. HERTZBERG: I JUST WANT TO NOTE, FOR THE RECORD, SINCE MR. MISCAVIGE GAVE A 1975 DATE, THAT THE EARLIEST ALLEGATION OF ANYTHING IN THE COMPLAINT THAT I'M AWARE OF IS SOMETIME IN 1978. MS. PLEVIN: YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION, MR. MISCAVIGE.

THE WITNESS: EPF.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. AND WOULD YOU STATE FOR THE RECORD WHAT EPF IS?

A. ESTATES PROJECT FORCE.

Q. AND AT WHAT ORG WERE YOU ON THE ESTATES PROJECT FORCE?

A. CMO, CW.

Q. WOULD YOU STATE FOR THE RECORD WHAT CMO, CW IS?

A. COMMODORE'S MESSENGER ORGANIZATION, CLEARWATER.

Q. WERE YOU A MEMBER OF THE CMO AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU WERE ON THE ESTATES PROJECT FORCE?

MR. HERTZBERG: DON'T GUESS.

THE WITNESS: YES.

BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. APPROXIMATELY WHEN DID YOU JOIN THE CMO?

A. 1976.

Q. WAS THIS YOUR FIRST CMO ASSIGNMENT?

A. YES.

Q. HOW LONG WERE YOU ON THE ESTATES PROJECT FORCE?

A. I CAN'T RECALL EXACTLY.

Q. MORE THAN A YEAR? MORE THAN A COUPLE OF YEARS?

A. NO.

Q. LESS THAN A YEAR?

A. YES.

Q. AND WHAT WAS YOUR NEXT POST OR STAFF POSITION?

A. PHOTO SHOOT ASSISTANT.

Q. TO WHOM?

A. THE PHOTO SHOOT TEAM.

Q. AND WHERE WAS THIS POSITION?

A. CLEARWATER.

Q. AND HOW LONG WERE YOU IN THAT POSITION?

A. ONE TO TWO MONTHS.

Q. AND DURING THE TIME YOU WERE IN ANY OF THE POSITIONS WE'VE DISCUSSED SO FAR, EXCEPT AS YOU'VE NOTICED THAT YOU MAY BE GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH DIRECTOR OF TECH SERVICES WHILE YOU WERE AT SAINT HILL, WAS THERE ANY OTHER TEMPORARY POSITION YOU HELD SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN BETWEEN THESE OTHER POSITIONS?

A. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FIRST PART ABOUT DIRECTOR OF TECHNICAL SERVICES. I MISSED WHAT YOU SAID THERE.

Q. YOU SAID WHILE YOU WERE AT SAINT HILL, YOU WERE PRETTY MUCH AN AUDITOR, BUT THERE WAS A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME YOU WERE DIRECTOR OF TECHNICAL SERVICES? A. NO, I DIDN'T.

Q. YOU SAID YOU WERE ACTING DIRECTOR OF TECHNICAL SERVICES?

A. NO. THE STATEMENT YOU GAVE ME IS NOT ACCURATE OF WHAT I SAID.

Q. WHAT DID YOU SAY?

MR. HELLER: OBJECTION TO HAVING HIM TESTIFY. IT'S IN THE RECORD WHAT HE SAID.

MR. HERTZBERG: THE RECORD WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF.

MS. PLEVIN: IT SURE IS.

Q. OKAY. WERE THERE ANY OTHER POSITIONS YOU HELD SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE POSITION OF PHOTO SHOOT ASSISTANT, OR WAS THAT A FULL-TIME POSITION?

A. YES.

Q. WHAT WAS THAT?

A. YES IS AN ANSWER TO "OTHER POSITION."

Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE OTHER POSITION?

A. EPF.

Q. SO THAT WAS GOING ALONG WITH YOUR BEING ON THE EPF, WHICH YOU MENTIONED A MINUTE AGO?

A. 50-50.

Q. OKAY.

A. BUT, THE ANSWER IS NO TO YOUR QUESTION AS STATED. AT A CERTAIN POINT IT WAS. THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.

Q. DID YOU HOLD ANY OTHER POSITIONS AT THE TIMES THAT YOU WERE HOLDING THE POSITION OF PHOTO SHOOT ASSISTANT AND A POSITION ON THE EPF?

A. NO.

Q. WERE YOU ALSO TAKING COURSES AT CLEARWATER AT THAT TIME?

MR. HERTZBERG: YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOW STILL TALKING ABOUT EVENTS THAT BY A NUMBER OF YEARS, PREDATE THE EARLIEST ALLEGATIONS IN THE COMPLAINT AND NOW YOU'RE NOT EVEN ASKING HIM ABOUT HIS -- WHAT JOBS OR FUNCTIONS MR. MISCAVIGE HAD. YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS RELIGIOUS PRACTICES.

MS. PLEVIN: ARE YOU GOING TO INSTRUCT HIM NOT TO ANSWER, MR. HERTZBERG?

MR. HERTZBERG: I WANT TO KNOW -- I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PURPOSE OF QUESTIONS LIKE THAT ARE, WHAT COURSES -MS. PLEVIN: THERE ARE --

MR. HELLER: I'M GOING TO JOIN IN THE OBJECTION.

MR. HERTZBERG: I'D LIKE TO KNOW, BECAUSE THAT WILL DETERMINE WHAT INSTRUCTION I GIVE.

MR. DRESCHER: I'LL JOIN.

MS. PLEVIN: MR. MISCAVIGE HAS A NUMBER OF POSITIONS HAVING TO DO WITH -- OR TECHNICAL END OF THINGS, WHICH ARE PROMOTED AND STATED TO BE ECCLESIASTICAL POSITIONS AND PRESUMABLY HE HAS HAD TRAINING FOR THOSE POSITIONS. I INTEND TO INQUIRE ABOUT THAT. IF YOU INSTRUCT HIM NOT TO ANSWER, LET'S MOVE ON.

MR. HERTZBERG: I WANT TO KNOW HOW THAT RELATES TO THE COMPLAINT. HOW -- WHAT COURSES AN INDIVIDUAL DEFENDANT IN THIS CASE TOOK IN YEARS -- OR AT ANY YEARS, REALLY, BUT IN THIS CASE, ANY YEARS THAT PREDATE THE COMPLAINT, WHERE IS THAT RELEVANT TO THIS LAWSUIT?

MS. PLEVIN: ARE YOU GOING TO INSTRUCT HIM NOT TO ANSWER?

MR. HERTZBERG: YOU'RE NOT GOING TO INDICATE?

MS. PLEVIN: NO.

MR. HERTZBERG: I'M INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER THE LAST QUESTION. BY MS. PLEVIN:

Q. ALL RIGHT. DID YOU TAKE ANY TRAINING WHILE YOU WERE AT CLEARWATER, IN THESE POSITIONS, WHILE YOU WERE TRAINING AT CLEARWATER, DURING THE TIME YOU WERE IN THE EPF AND A PHOTO SHOOT ASSISTANT? MR. HERTZBERG: I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH THAT QUESTION. DO YOU WISH TO AMPLIFY ON HOW THAT IS RELEVANT TO MR. CORYDON'S CLAIMS?

MS. PLEVIN: NO, NOT AT THIS TIME.

MR. HERTZBERG: SAME INSTRUCTION.

MR. HELLER: I'LL JOIN IN THE OBJECTION AND ADD THAT THE WORD "TRAINING" IS VAGUE AND AMBIGUOUS.

MR. DRESCHER: I'LL JOIN WITH BOTH OBJECTIONS.

MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.

Q. DID YOU DO ANY LEVELS WHILE YOU WERE AT CLEARWATER DURING THE TIME WHILE YOU WERE ON THE EPF AND PHOTO SHOOT ASSISTANT?

MR. HERTZBERG: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "LEVELS," FIRST OF ALL?

MS. PLEVIN: OT-3, NOTS. I DON'T KNOW.

MR. HERTZBERG: YOU DON'T KNOW? SAME INSTRUCTION.

MS. PLEVIN: I'M ASKING HIM.

Q. ANYTHING ON THE --

MR. HERTZBERG: LET'S MOVE ON.

qq


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