BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. TELL ME ABOUT THOSE COMMUNICATIONS. TELL ME WHAT COMMUNICATIONS THERE WERE AND THEN WE'LL GO INTO QUESTIONS ABOUT THEM. HOW MANY WERE THERE? A. IN REGARDS TO JUST SO I'M CLEAR --
Q. THOSE FOUR AREAS.
A. BENT CORYDON, SQUIRRELS, MISSIONS AND MY POTENTIAL POWER AND ROLE IN ORGANIZATIONS OF SCIENTOLOGY.
MR. DRESCHER: WHY DON'T YOU ASK HIM FOR EACH ONE SEPARATE.
MS, PLEVIN: THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO.
Q, FIRST ENUMERATE THEM AND WE'LL GO INTO EACH SEPARATELY,
A. SO BENT CORYDON.
Q. FINE.
A. NONE, NEVER EVER.
Q. SQUIRRELS?
A. SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELING, NOT SQUIRRELS, YES.
Q. HOW MANY?
A. I DON'T KNOW. A FEW.
Q. LESS THAN FIVE?
A. I'D SAY UP TO FIVE. MAYBE FIVE TOTAL.
Q. WRITTEN OR TELEX OR TYPED?
A. TYPED.
Q. WERE THEY SIGNED BY MR. HUBBARD -- SIGNATURE?
MR. HERTZBERG: IF YOU REMEMBER,
THE WITNESS: I CAN'T REMEMBER,
BY MS, PLEVIN:
Q, FEWER THAN FIVE YOU SAID, DO YOU RECALL ABOUT WHEN YOU RECEIVED THESE?
A. WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT OF SQUIRRELS?
Q. YES.
A. LATE '82 OR EARLY 1983.
Q. AND WHAT WAS IT ABOUT? WHAT WERE THESE COMMUNICATIONS ABOUT?
A. OUT-TECH.
Q. WERE THEY ABOUT LITIGATION HAVING TO DO WITH OUT-TECH?
A. NO.
Q. OR SQUIRRELS?
A. NO.
Q. DID THEY PROVIDE ANY INSTRUCTIONS TO YOU OR OTHER PEOPLE REGARDING THIS SUBJECT MATTER OF SQUIRRELS?
A. YES.
Q. WHAT WERE THOSE INSTRUCTIONS?
A. THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE TO RUN A -- OR THAT THE IDEA OF A STANDARD TECH CRUSADE SHOULD BE DONE WITHIN SCIENTOLOGY, TO MAKE SURE THAT STANDARD TECH WAS POPULARIZED IN ANY AREA WHERE A SQUIRREL HAD MESSED IT UP OR HAD BEEN RUNNING SQUIRREL ALTER DESTRUCTIVE PROCESSES.
Q. ANYTHING ELSE IN THOSE COMMUNICATIONS? A. ANYTHING ELSE?
Q. YES.
A. YES.
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MEAN ON THAT SUBJECT MATTER? MS. PLEVIN: ON THAT SUBJECT MATTER.
MR. HERTZBERG: THE SUBJECT MATTER --
THE WITNESS: OF SQUIRRELS, YES.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. WHAT ELSE?
A. JUST HIS GENERAL DISTASTE FOR THEM, I GUESS I COULD BEST SUM IT UP THAT WAY, AND THAT I GUESS SOMEWHAT OF A BRIEFING OR HISTORICAL ACCOUNT ON JUST THE PROBLEM WITH SQUIRRELS, THAT THEY WERE OUT-TECH. THAT WAS BASICALLY IT. Q. ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THOSE COMMUNICATIONS?
A. NO.
Q. WHAT ABOUT THE MISSIONS?
A. YES.
Q. AND WHAT KIND OF COMMUNICATION --
A. BY THE WAY, WHEN YOU SAY "WHAT ABOUT THE MISSION," YOU MEAN DID I GET A COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE MISSIONS?
Q. YES.
A. YES.
Q. ABOUT HOW MANY?
A. JUST TO CLARIFY, DID I GET A COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE MISSIONS? I DON'T KNOW IF I DID -- I SAW COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE MISSION.
Q. THAT CAME FROM HUBBARD?
A. YES.
Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT?
A. YES.
Q. WHAT WAS IT ABOUT?
A. IT WAS ABOUT THE MISSIONS. IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN?
Q. WHAT ABOUT THE MISSIONS, YES.
A. IT WAS ABOUT MISSION HOLDERS -- IT WASN'T ABOUT MISSION HOLDERS -- MISSION HOLDERS OR MISSIONS THAT WERE OUT-TECH OR DIDN'T THINK TECH APPLIED TO THEM OR DIDN'T THINK THEY HAD TO MAINTAIN A HIGH LEVEL OF TECH OR THAT WERE OFF POLICY OR MONEY MOTIVATED. Q. WERE ANY OF THOSE COMMUNICATIONS ABOUT THE ESTABLISHMENT OF SMI?
A. NO.
Q. AND DID YOU RECEIVE ANY WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS FROM HIM DURING THIS PERIOD OF -- WHICH WE'VE DESCRIBED AS BEING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR ROLE OR POTENTIAL ROLE IN SCIENTOLOGY ORGANIZATIONS?
A. NO.
Q. INITIALLY YOU SAID THAT YOU HAD A WRITTEN COMMUNICATION FROM MR. HUBBARD ABOUT THE MISSIONS TO YOU AND THAT THEN YOU CORRECTED --
A. IT WASN'T ABOUT THE MISSIONS. IT -- IT WAS ABOUT A SUBJECT OF THE MISSIONS, SO MISSIONS WERE INCLUDED.
Q. OKAY.
A. OKAY.
Q. DO YOU KNOW TO WHOM THAT WAS DIRECTED?
A. I CAN'T RECALL.
Q. OKAY. YOU TESTIFIED THAT THESE WRITTEN COMMUNICATIONS WERE NOT SIGNED BY MR. HUBBARD'S HAND; IS THAT ACCURATE? IT DIDN'T HAVE HIS SIGNATURE ON IT?
MR. HERTZBERG: MY RECOLLECTION OF THE TESTIMONY IS HE DOESN'T REMEMBER. YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF --
THE WITNESS: WHICH ONE?
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. LET'S APPROACH IT A DIFFERENT WAY. DO YOU RECALL ANY SPECIFICALLY NOT BEING SIGNED BY MR. HUBBARD, VIA SIGNATURE, HANDWRITTEN SIGNATURE.
MR. DRESCHER: WE'RE GETTING VERY VAGUE HERE. I BELIEVE THE QUESTION WAS ORIGINALLY DIRECTED TO COMMUNICATIONS FROM MR. HUBBARD CONCERNING SQUIRRELING AND THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY WAS HE DIDN'T RECALL. NOW --
MS. PLEVIN: NOW I'M ASKING HIM IF HE SPECIFICALLY RECALLS THAT ANY OF THEM WERE NOT SIGNED.
MR. HERTZBERG: WAIT. SEE, I THINK THE APPROACH IS -- SOMETHING CONFUSING ABOUT THE APPROACH. MY RECOLLECTION OF THE TESTIMONY WAS HE COULDN'T RECALL IF ANY OF THEM WERE SIGNED, SO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE APPROACH. I DON'T THINK IT'S HELPFUL TO CLARIFY WHEN YOU SAY WHICH ONES WEREN'T, WHEN HE COULDN'T REMEMBER, IN HIS PRIOR TESTIMONY, THAT ANY WERE.
MS. PLEVIN: I'M NOT ASKING WHICH ONES. I'M ASKING IF HE SPECIFICALLY RECALLS THAT ANY WERE NOT SIGNED.
THE WITNESS: THESE ONES THAT I MENTIONED TO YOU, I DON'T THINK THEY WERE. THAT'S MY ANSWER, TO THE BEST OF MY MEMORY AND RECOLLECTION. BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. IF THEY WERE NOT SIGNED, WHAT WAS THE MEANS BY WHICH YOU KNOW THEY CAME FROM HUBBARD?
A. WHAT WAS THE MEANS BY WHICH I KNEW?
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU'RE ASKING HIM IN 1982 -- IN THIS PERIOD?
MS. PLEVIN: CONFERENCE WITH COUNSEL.
(CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS.)
MR. HERTZBERG: GO AHEAD.
THE WITNESS: HOW DID I KNOW THEY WERE FROM L.R.H.?
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. YES.
A. I KNEW THEY WERE DICTATION TAPES. I DID NOT HEAR THE ACTUAL DICTATION NECESSARILY ON THESE, ALTHOUGH I DON'T RECALL IF I DID OR DIDN'T, BUT THAT'S HOW I GENERALLY KNEW. Q. OKAY. BUT SOMEBODY HANDED YOU THE WRITTEN COMMUNICATION, THE TYPE --
A. NO.
Q. HOW DID YOU GET IT?
A. IT WOULD BE ON MY DESK.
Q. AND YOU DON'T KNOW HOW IT GOT THERE?
A. I --
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MEAN OTHER THAN SOMEBODY PUTTING IT ON THE DESK?
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. SPECIFICALLY WHO PUT IT ON THERE?
A. WHO PUT THAT ON THERE?
Q. YES.
A. NO, I DON'T KNOW THAT.
Q. WHY DID YOU ASSUME THEY WERE FROM HUBBARD?
A. DIDN'T I JUST ANSWER THAT?
Q. THESE COMMUNICATIONS WITHOUT SIGNATURE. NO, YOU SAID YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE TAPES.
A. NO, I SAID I CAN'T RECALL WHETHER I NECESSARILY HEARD THOSE ONES OR NOT, BUT I KNEW THAT THEY WERE DICTATED AND I HEARD DICTATION, AND THESE WERE IN DICTATED FORM.
Q. OKAY.
A. YOU ASKED ME HOW DID I KNOW?
Q. YES.
A. YOU WANT MY ANSWER?
Q. YES.
A. I KNEW. THAT'S MY BEST ANSWER. I KNEW.
Q. NOW, DID MR. HUBBARD USE CERTAIN NOTES OF SOME KIND AS A SIGNATURE ON THE TRANSCRIBED CASSETTES TO DENOTE HIM? FOR EXAMPLE, AN ASTERISK OR POUND SIGN OR THE LETTER ** MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MEAN FROM TIME TO TIME?
MS. PLEVIN: FROM TIME TO TIME.
THE WITNESS: I THINK FROM TIME TO TIME HE SIGNED HIS NAME "R." THAT WAS -- YOU SAY TO DENOTE. I DON'T KNOW, "R," INITIALS L.R.H., "R."
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. OKAY. BUT TYPED ON THE PAGE?
A. DID HE TYPE THEM ON THE PAGE?
Q. NO, TYPED BY THE PERSON WHO TRANSCRIBED THE CASSETTE.
A. YOU ASKED ME IF L.R.H. NOTED THESE -- I DON'T KNOW.
MR. HERTZBERG: THIS IS RELEVANT TO THIS LAWSUIT?
MS. PLEVIN: YES.
MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY.
THE WITNESS: YOU ASKED ME SEVERAL. I GAVE THE "R." A POUND SIGN? I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT. YOU MEAN A BRITISH STERLING?
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. NO, NO, NO. IT'S CALLED A POUND SIGN. I'M SHOWING YOU A DOCUMENT CAPTIONED "LOWW/SOI 30 NOVEMBER 1979" IT'S A THREE-PAGE DOCUMENT.
MR. HERTZBERG: GOT ONE FOR ME.
MS. PLEVIN: YES.
MR. HERTZBERG: THANK YOU.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. YOU SEE THE THIRD PAGE THERE. TAKE A LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT, PLEASE.
A. OKAY.
MR. LIEBERMAN: LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT, PLEASE.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN A LOOK AT IT,
MR. MISCAVIGE?
MR. HERTZBERG: I HAVEN'T.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. I JUST WANT TO KNOW IF HE TOOK A LOOK AT IT.
A. I GLANCED AT IT, YES.
MR. HERTZBERG: COULD YOU WAIT FOR A MOMENT UNTIL I FINISH READING IT. ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT BEFORE?
A. NO, I HAVEN'T.
Q. YOU SEE ON PAGE 3 THAT THERE ARE, AT THE END OF THE TEXT, THERE'S THREE --
A. NUMERAL MARKS.
Q. THAT'S WHAT I CALL THEM, BUT THE TELEPHONE COMPANY CALLS THEM POUND SIGNS WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH CODES ON THE TELEPHONE.
MR. DRESCHER: SHARP SIGNS.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. SHARP. YOU SEE THAT?
A. YES.
Q. IS THAT ONE OF THE WAYS MR. HUBBARD DESIGNATED HE WAS THE ORIGINATOR OF THE TEXT DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME THAT HE WAS COMMUNICATING WITH YOU IN WRITING ON OCCASION? A. I DON'T KNOW.
Q. OKAY. HERE'S A TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT.
A. DO YOU WANT THIS ONE BACK?
Q. MS. PLEVIN: ONE FOR MR. HERTZBERG, IF HE WANTS TO SEE IT.
MR. HERTZBERG: I MOST CERTAINLY DO.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. IT SAYS AT THE TOP, "DIV 6 STATS SCN INT," AND YOU SEE THAT IT HAS AN "R" ON PAGE 2 AFTER THE TEXT.
A. YES.
Q. IS THAT FAMILIAR TO YOU AS ONE OF THE WAYS IN WHICH MR. HUBBARD COMMUNICATED IN WRITING AND DESIGNATED -- SO THAT PEOPLE WOULD KNOW IT CAME FROM HIM?
MR. HERTZBERG: I THINK HE SAID, "FROM TIME TO TIME."
THE WITNESS: NO, NOT LIKE THIS. I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY LIKE THIS IN MY LIFE. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I'M VERY UNFAMILIAR WITH THIS.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT THIS ONE? THIS IS A THREE-PAGE DOCUMENT, SAYS "RE STARTER PACKAGE FOR SMI."
DO YOU SEE HOW THAT'S SIGNED AT THE END?
A. NO, I DON'T EVEN SEE A SIGNATURE.
Q. WELL, IT HAS "R COLON DJSR."
A. RIGHT. I SEE THAT.
MR. HERTZBERG: HE SEES IT. IS THERE A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION?
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE?
A. NO.
Q. SO DOCUMENTS WOULD APPEAR ON YOUR DESK AND YOUR TESTIMONY IS THAT EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER THEY WERE ALL SIGNED, THERE WERE CERTAIN DOCUMENTS YOU KNEW CAME FROM HUBBARD? YOU JUST KNEW THEY CAME FROM HUBBARD? MR. HERTZBERG: THAT WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED. HE ASKED AND ANSWERED -- THAT WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED.
MS. PLEVIN: OKAY. A SINGLE PAGE DOCUMENT SAYS "ALERT ADMIN EMERGENCY SMI" ON THE LEFT IT HAS "WTC." ON THE RIGHT IT HAS "8 JANUARY 1980 RE: STARTER PACK FOR SMI MISSIONS."
Q. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THIS DOCUMENT BEFORE?
A. NO, I HAVEN'T.
Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE PLANNING FOR THE START UP OF SMI?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. TELL ME ABOUT --
A. I HEARD ABOUT IT, AND I -- I HEARD ABOUT IT.
Q. DO YOU RECALL FROM WHO?
A. I'M NOT POSITIVE, BUT I THINK ANN TASKETT.
Q. DID SHE EVER TELL YOU THAT SHE RECEIVED ADVICES AND ORDERS FROM HUBBARD REGARDING SMI?
A. NO.
Q. DID MR. HUBBARD COMMUNICATE WITH YOU VIA ANY INTERMEDIARY, FROM '81, TO HIS DEATH?
MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY. IS THAT QUESTION SUBJECT TO THE SAME FOUR CATEGORIES OF LIMITATION THAT WE'VE AGREED AND STIPULATED TO BEFORE?
MS. PLEVIN: RIGHT.
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MAY ANSWER, SUBJECT TO -- IN OTHER WORDS, DID YOU COMMUNICATE DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, VIA ANY INTERMEDIARIES ABOUT THOSE FOUR SUBJECTS?
(CONFERENCE BETWEEN COUNSEL AND WITNESS.)
THE WITNESS: CAN I ASK WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "INTERMEDIARY"?
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. SOMEONE WHO YOU MET WITH, WHO HAD BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HUBBARD.
A. AND COMMUNICATED SOMETHING TO ME?
Q. YES.
A. NO.
Q. DID YOU MEET AT ANY TIME BETWEEN 1980 AND MR. HUBBARD'S DEATH THROUGH AN INTERMEDIARY, WITH MR. HUBBARD, ABOUT ANY SUBJECT?
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU'RE ASKING ANY SUBJECT?
MS. PLEVIN: YES.
MR. HERTZBERG: WITHOUT THE LIMITATION?
MS. PLEVIN: THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. HERTZBERG: I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT MR. MISCAVIGE THAT HE MAY ANSWER THAT QUESTION SUBJECT TO THE FOUR CATEGORIES OF LIMITATION THAT HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY AGREED UPON WITH RESPECT TO YOUR PRIOR QUESTIONS.
MS. PLEVIN: BUT YOU'RE INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER -- HE'S ALREADY ANSWERED "NO" AS TO THAT MODIFIED QUESTION. YOU'RE INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER AS TO --
MR. LIEBERMAN: I THINK THE QUESTION IS A LITTLE GARBLED, QUITE FRANKLY. COULD YOU REPEAT IT?
(RECORD READ.)
MR. DRESCHER: I THINK --
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. DID YOU COMMUNICATE WITH MR. HUBBARD VIA ANY INTERMEDIARY, OR MR. HUBBARD COMMUNICATE WITH YOU VIA ANY INTERMEDIARY, ON ANY SUBJECT FROM 1980 TO MR. HUBBARD'S DEATH?
MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY. I AM -- I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT HIM THAT HE MAY ANSWER THAT, INSOFAR AS HE COMMUNICATED WITH MR. HUBBARD VIA ANY INTERMEDIARY ON THE FOUR SUBJECTS THAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED.
THE WITNESS: NO.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. AND YOU'RE INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER THE UNMODIFIED QUESTION?
MR. HERTZBERG: YES, OTHERWISE, SUBJECTS OTHER THAN CORYDON. SQUIRRELS, MISSIONS OR THE --
MS. PLEVIN: ALL YOU HAVE TO DO -- YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING IT. I THINK WE UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER.
Q. DID YOU EVER MEET WITH PAT BROKER TO DISCUSS COMMUNICATIONS FROM MR. HUBBARD TO YOU AT ANY TIME BETWEEN 1980 AND HIS DEATH, DEATH OF MR. HUBBARD?
MR. HERTZBERG: ONE MOMENT. I'M CONFUSED BY THAT. WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK.
(RECESS TAKEN.)
MR. HERTZBERG: MR. MISCAVIGE WILL ANSWER THE PENDING QUESTION.
THE WITNESS: NO.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. DID YOU EVER GO OFF THE PROPERTY OF GILMAN HOT SPRINGS WITH D.D. REISDORF TO MEET WITH PAT BROKER TO GET COMMUNICATIONS FROM L. RON HUBBARD IN THE PERIOD 1980. '81, TOWARDS THE END OF '81?
A. NO.
Q. WHO WAS IN COMMUNICATION WITH MR. HUBBARD FROM THE PERIOD 1980 THROUGH HIS DEATH, AND WE CAN BREAK IT DOWN IF YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE, AS IT CHANGES IN THAT PERIOD?
MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "AS IT CHANGES IN TEAT PERIOD"? WHAT DO YOU MEAN "AS IT CHANGES IN THAT PERIOD"?
MS. PLEVIN: IT'S A LONG PERIOD. THERE MAY HAVE BEEN CHANGES AS TO WHO HE UNDERSTANDS WOULD BE IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH MR. HUBBARD.
MR. HERTZBERG: I WILL INSTRUCT HIM TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, SUBJECT TO THE LIMITATION OF WHETHER HE KNOWS ANYBODY DURING THAT TIME PERIOD THAT YOU HAVE SPECIFIED WHO WAS IN COMMUNICATION WITH MR. HUBBARD WITH RESPECT TO THE FOUR AREAS THAT WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY STIPULATED TO WITH RESPECT TO PRIOR QUESTIONS.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION AS MODIFIED BY YOUR ATTORNEY, MR. MISCAVIGE?
A. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.
MR. HERTZBERG: OKAY. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AND YOU CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MISS PLEVIN, MISS PLEVIN WANTS TO KNOW WHETHER YOU KNOW OF ANYBODY DURING THE 1980 TO 1986 PERIOD WHO RECEIVED COMMUNICATIONS FROM MR. HUBBARD, ON THE TOPICS OF BENT CORYDON, SQUIRRELS, MISSIONS AND YOUR POWER IN SCIENTOLOGY.
THE WITNESS: OKAY.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. ACTUALLY THAT WASN'T IT, BUT YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION AND I'LL REPHRASE IT.
A. ON BENT CORYDON? NO. ON MISSIONS? I MENTIONED THAT TO YOU. ON SQUIRRELS, THE ONES I'VE MENTIONED AND YES, I KNOW COMMUNICATIONS ON SQUIRRELS AND MY POWER, NO. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHO WAS IN PERSON-TO-PERSON CONTACT WITH MR. HUBBARD IN 1980?
A. WHEN?
Q. IN 1980. AT ANY TIME IN 1980?
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MEAN ON ANY TOPIC?
MS. PLEVIN: YES.
MR. HERTZBERG: THE SAME LIMITATION. MR. MISCAVIGE CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I WILL PERMIT HIM TO ANSWER THE QUESTION INSOFAR AS HE KNOWS ANYBODY DURING 1980 WHO WAS IN CONTACT WITH MR. HUBBARD ON THE SUBJECT OF BENT CORYDON, SQUIRRELS, MISSIONS AND THE CATEGORY WHICH YOU FORMULATED NAMING MR. MISCAVIGE'S POWER IN SCIENTOLOGY.
MR. LIEBERMAN: WHEN YOU SAID DIRECT CONTACT --
MS. PLEVIN: THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, "DIRECT CONTACT"? MR. LIEBERMAN: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "DIRECT CONTACT." MS. PLEVIN: PERSON BY PERSON, LIVING WITH HIM --
MR. LIEBERMAN: ACTUALLY HAVING PERSONALLY MET HIM? MR. DRESCHER: FACE TO FACE?
MS. PLEVIN: FACE TO FACE.
THE WITNESS: ON THOSE FOUR SUBJECTS, NO.
MS. PLEVIN: THE OBJECTION IS UNDERSTOOD, MR. HERTZBERG. YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE A HALF PAGE OF TYPE EVERY TIME IT COMES UP. Q. WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER, MR. MISCAVIGE?
MR. HERTZBERG: INSOFAR AS YOU'RE ASKING HIM OUTSIDE THOSE FOUR AREAS, I'M INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER.
MS. PLEVIN: OKAY.
MR. HERTZBERG: ONE MOMENT, PLEASE. LET ME SPEAK TO MY CO-COUNSEL. ALL RIGHT. INSOFAR AS YOU'RE SEEKING AN ANSWER OUTSIDE THOSE FOUR AREAS, I'M INSTRUCTING HIM NOT TO ANSWER.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. DID YOU HAVE ANY MEETINGS WITH PAT BROKER OR WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND YOURSELF WITH PAT BROKER AT ANY TIME IN WHICH YOU BELIEVED THAT MR. BROKER WAS SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF MR. HUBBARD AND COMMUNICATING TO YOU ON BEHALF OF MR. HUBBARD? A. NO.
(RECESS TAKEN.)
MR. HERTZBERG: LET'S GO BACK ON THE RECORD. FOR THE RECORD, I INQUIRED OF MISS PLEVIN HOW LATE SHE INTENDED TO GO TODAY. MISS PLEVIN SAID SHE COULD BE PREPARED TO GO UNTIL 10 O'CLOCK. I SAID THAT THAT WOULD BE FINE ON OUR SIDE. THE COURT REPORTER HAS INFORMED US THAT SHE IS NOT ABLE TO GO BEYOND 6:00 O'CLOCK.
MS. PLEVIN: RIGHT. I ALSO STATED THAT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE NOTICE SPECIFYING -- THE NOTICE OF DEPOSITION SPECIFYING TWO DAYS LIMITS ME TO TWO DAYS AS A MATTER OF PROCEDURE AND GIVEN MR. HERTZBERG'S CONTRARY VIEW VIEW AND MY BELIEF THAT WE MAY NOT FINISH AT ALL TOMORROW, IT WOULD BE MY PREFERENCE TO TRY TO AVOID MOTION PRACTICE, ON A MOTION TO COMPEL ON THAT ISSUE AND TO STAY AS LONG AS WE COULD ALL STAND IT, SO THAT IT'S WITHIN A TWO-DAY SPAN, SINCE IT SEEMS TO BE MR. HERTZBERG'S CLAIM OF LIMITATION.
MR. HELLER: WHY DON'T WE DEAL WITH IT TOMORROW. I'M NOT SURE WHAT MY SCHEDULE IS GOING TO BE TOMORROW. MR. HERTZBERG: LARRY --
MR. HELLER: GO AHEAD.
MR. DRESCHER: I THINK THERE'S A RESPONSE TO THAT THAT'S NECESSARY.
MR. HERTZBERG: I WANT TO MAKE ONE RESPONSE.
MR. DRESCHER: WELL, YOU GO AHEAD.
MR. HERTZBERG: I JUST WANT TO NOTE FOR THE RECORD IT WASN'T JUST YOUR NOTICE, BUT ALSO CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAD WHICH LED ME TO BELIEVE THAT WE WERE GOING TO -- THAT YOU WERE NOT GOING TO NEED MORE THAN TWO DAYS TO COMPLETE THIS DEPOSITION OF MR. MISCAVIGE, AND I ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT IT WAS IN RELIANCE ON THAT, THAT THAT WAS A FACTOR IN MY DECIDING TO GIVE UP WHAT I CONSIDERED TO BE MY ENTITLEMENT TO COMPLETE YOUR CLIENT'S DEPOSITION BEFORE YOU TOOK MY CLIENT'S DEPOSITION.
MS. PLEVIN: I DIDN'T SAY I'D HAVE TO PICK UP WITH HIM AGAIN WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.
WE WERE IN THE PROCESS OF DISCUSSING SCHEDULING, AND MR. HERTZBERG HAD MADE A COMMENT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF PRIORITY AND SO FORTH, AND I BEGAN TO STATE THAT ALTHOUGH I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS AN ENTITLEMENT TO PRIORITY IN THIS SITUATION, THAT MY NEED TO FINISH UP MR. MISCAVIGE, SHOULD WE NOT FINISH TOMORROW, WOULD NOT NECESSARILY INTERVENE PRIOR TO YOUR FINISHING WITH MR. CORYDON. THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE ACCOMMODATION. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
MR. HERTZBERG: YOU MAY THINK IT IS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS. MR. MISCAVIGE IS A BUSY PERSON.
MS. PLEVIN: ALL RIGHT. OKAY.
MR. HERTZBERG: LET ME FINISH. I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WHILE -- I'M JUST NOT AGREEING TO THAT. I THINK WE SHOULD DO EVERYTHING TO LIVE UP TO WHAT WE ARE -- OUR EXPECTATION THAT THIS WOULD BE A DEPOSITION OF TWO DAYS OR LESS, AND LET'S MOVE ON. MS. PLEVIN: WAS THERE A QUESTION PENDING?
(RECORD READ.)
MS. PLEVIN: HERE'S A TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT ENTITLED "SEA ORG FLAG ORDER 3879 CANCELED," ORIGINALLY DATED 19 JANUARY 1986, ISSUED IN MARCH 1986 AND CANCELED 18 APRIL 1988.
Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THIS DOCUMENT, MR. MISCAVIGE?
A. YES.
Q. DID YOU WRITE THIS DOCUMENT?
MR. HERTZBERG: LET ME JUST LOOK AT IT FOR A MOMENT.
OKAY. YOU MAY ANSWER.
THE WITNESS: YES, I DID.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. THE SECOND PARAGRAPH OF THE FIRST PAGE --
A. CAN I JUST READ THROUGH THIS?
Q. PLEASE. SURE. TAKE YOUR TIME.
A. RIGHT. OKAY. I'M DONE READING THIS.
MR. HELLER: BEFORE YOU ASK A QUESTION, I'LL OBJECT TO ANY QUESTIONS RELATING TO THIS DOCUMENT, NOW THAT I'VE HAD A CHANCE TO PERUSE IT, AND BASED ON RELEVANCE, I DON'T SEE HOW IT RELATES TO THIS COMPLAINT AT ALL.
BY MS. PLEVIN:
Q. MR. MISCAVIGE, IN PARAGRAPH 2, IT STATES "A FULL INVESTIGATION REVEALED THAT THE FLAG ORDER 3879, THE SEA ORG, IN THE FUTURE HAD NOT IN FACT BEEN WRITTEN BY OR BEEN SEEN BY L.R.H. NOR WERE THE CONTENTS BASED ON ANY ADVICE, REQUEST OR NOTE FROM L.R.H." A. THE FLAG WAS FABRICATED BY PAT BROKER, JUST TO COMPLETE THE PARAGRAPH.
Q. YES. WHAT WERE THE FACTS THAT YOU DISCOVERED IN THAT INVESTIGATION THAT LED YOU TO BELIEVE THAT?
MR. HERTZBERG: ALL RIGHT. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE RELEVANCE OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE COMPLAINT IN THIS CASE, MISS PLEVIN? THIS IS GETTING REALLY PRETTY -- PRETTY OUTRAGEOUS.
MS. PLEVIN: MR. MISCAVIGE HAS WRITTEN -- ISSUED THIS DOCUMENT AS A SEA ORG DOCUMENT WITH A FLAG ORDER DESIGNATION, AND DENOTING HIS POSITION AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD RTC HAVING TO DO WITH A VARIETY OF POWERS, AND RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES.
MR. HERTZBERG: YES. AND HE'S TESTIFIED THAT HE WAS A GENERAL OF THE BOARD OF RTC. HOW DOES THAT RELATE TO BENT CORYDON?
MR. HELLER: OR THE COMPLAINT?
MS. PLEVIN: I'VE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION A DOZEN TIMES. I'M NOT GOING TO ANSWER IT AGAIN. ARE YOU GOING TO INSTRUCT HIM NOT TO ANSWER?
MR. HERTZBERG: YES, I AM. IF THAT'S ALL YOU CAN SAY ABOUT WHY YOU'RE GOING TO ASK THIS QUESTION, I'M GOING TO, IN THE INTEREST OF UTTERLY WASTING TIME.
MS. PLEVIN: ALL RIGHT.