Lisa McPherson Files - Interview of Gurney Pasco

This is an interview with Gurney Pasco, a co-worker of Lisa McPherson's at AMC Publishing.

SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION
FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department          Report No.         9529158
Offense           Death Investigation           Date of Report     4/1/97

Location          644 Pierce Street             Orig Incident Date 12/6/95
Victim            Lisa McPherson                VI Prosecute       Yes  No
Investigator      Det. Jorge Carrasquillo
Previous Status   Active
Subject           None
Impound Inventory None


Today's date is 4/1/97. The time is 1445. This is an interview with Mr. Pasco
concerning the Lisa McPherson investigation. Present during the interview are Det.
Jim Little of Clearwater Police Department, Attorney Ron Cacciatore, who represents
Mr. Pasco, and myself, Det. Carrasquillo.


Det. Carrasquillo:    Mr. Pasco, would you please state for me your first...personal
                      information such as your full name...and spell it...home address
                      and date of birth...social security number...home telephone
                      number and work telephone number please.
Pasco:                Sure. Uh...my full name is Gurney...G U R N E Y...Mallory...
                      M A L L O R Y...Pasco...PASCO. Uh...my date of birth is
                      2/13/48. My current home address is 253 Grove Circle South,
                      Dunedin, Florida 34698. My home phone number is 733-4692.
                      And my...I'm currently employed at Valco & Associates, which is
                      located at 1221 Rogers Street, Suite A, Clearwater, Florida
                      34616, telephone number 446-4161.
Det. Carrasquillo:    And your social security number sir?
Pasco:                Social security number is XXX-XX-XXXX.
Det. Carrasquillo:    Okay. Florida Law allows me to place you under oath. So this
                      will be an interview under oath. Would you please raise your


                                                                    Page 1 of 23

SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 right hand. Do you swear to tell me the truth and nothing but the whole truth so help you God? Pasco: I do. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Thank you. Now Mr. Pasco, if you will just give me a brief synopsis of how you met Lisa, I think we can start with that. Pasco: Okay. Uh...I was employed at AMC Publishing on April the 4th, 1995. And at the time, Lisa was a salesperson there. She was one of the sales consultants. And that is how I came to know Lisa. Det. Carrasquillo: So you...actually the first contact you ever had with Lisa was April 1995? Pasco: Yes. Det. Carrasquillo: Did...how long did you work for AMC Publishing? Pasco: Uh...about 18 months...a year and a half. Det. Carrasquillo: And you worked until...? Pasco: Until October of...I think it was October the 14th of 1996. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you were there when Lisa passed away? Pasco: Yes, I was. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. We can skip some of the questions. Will you describe for me your job title...what you were doing at AMC at the time that you were employed by them? Pasco: I was the consultant copywriter. Basically, I interviewed their clients, who were insurance marketers, in order to compose ads that...that were published in a...what do you call it...a card pack...which we mailed out to insurance agents to recruit them. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Page 2 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Pasco: So that...that was basically what I did. Det. Carrasquillo: So you put together card packs basically? Pasco: I wrote the ad copy. I didn't do the...the art work. But I did the ad copy. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you had no contact with the insurance agents themselves? Pasco: Umm...I...I had contact with the insurance marketers. They were our clients. I had...I had phone contact with them. I also had contact with the sales consultants, which Lisa was one...because the sales consultant was kinda like the marketer's primary contact. They...they kinda took them under their wings so to speak, and they had a lot of...a lot of personal information about the person and what they were looking for in the ads. So there was a lot of liaison between me and the sales consultants. Det. Carrasquillo: Well, let...let me make sure I understand this. Pasco: Okay. Det. Carrasquillo: Were you involved in this selling procedure in any way, shape, or form? Pasco: Not the selling itself. But from the point that...that the...the client purchased an ad...to the point that the ad was produced...there was a lot of interchange between myself and the sales reps. Det. Carrasquillo: To see what the client wanted? Pasco: Right. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. But you were not based on commission or nothing like that? Pasco: No, I...I was based... Page 3 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/ Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Carrasquillo: Straight salary? Pasco: Just straight salary...right. Det. Carrasquillo: And you mentioned that you had daily contact with Lisa. Pasco: I would say almost everyday...yeah...probably...probably daily...Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: And...and...and it was involving strictly work...you know...what does this client want...what does this client need...things like that? Pasco: Pretty much. AMC is a...it's an interesting place to work...it's a great place to work. Uh...at that time, we had a cook who...who cooked our meals. And...you know...you...you didn't have to participate in it. But if you wanted to, you...for a very minimal fee you could get a really good...good meal. We had like a lunch room. And on a...on a nice warm day we...we put out picnic tables and so forth. So...so there...there was a lot of comradery. So there was...there was that kind of interchange at lunch time as well. Det. Carrasquillo: Was that Michelle Smith or Peggy Kearns when you were there? Pasco: The...the cook that we had was Peggy. Det. Carrasquillo: Peggy Kearns...the blonde? Pasco: Right. Det. Carrasquillo: So...which makes sense...you sat around and you talked about work anyway and you had a good decent meal out of it. Pasco: Right...yeah. Det. Carrasquillo: We should do that around here. Pasco: Yeah, it was...it was... Det. Little: Yeah. Page 4 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Pasco: It was real nice. Det. Carrasquillo: Do you have any...my understanding is that Lisa took a leave of absence in either June or July of 95. Do you have any information on that? Pasco: None...no, I...I didn't have any privileged information about it. I...I was just made aware that she was on leave of absence. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did they tell you what for since you were made aware? Pasco: It...it was...it was not gone into in great detail. The...the...the...the impression was that she had some kind of physical illness that she was...that she was dealing with...or some kind of illness. I don't know if it was stress related. They didn't specify the physical nature. She had some kind of illness. Det. Carrasquillo: Do you...do you remember if that was in June or July or what month? Pasco: I really couldn't say exactly what month it was. I just remember that it did occur. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Pasco: After I had been there a little while. Det. Carrasquillo: Do you have any information regarding her isolation starting November 18, 1995, until her death December 5, 1995? Pasco: This is the only information that I have firsthand in that area. Uh...the Flag Service Organization, which is down there on Ft. Harrison, has a weekly graduation ceremony every Friday night. All the...the students who have completed courses that week are recognized and they have a guest speaker come in. It's a nice ceremony. And then afterwards, they have like refreshments. And usually my wife and I go to that. It's a nice thing to do on Page 5 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Friday evening. Uh...one of those graduation nights, I was at the Ft. Harrison. After the ceremony, we were sitting out around the pool and Lisa was there going for a swim. And I...I hadn't seen her for a while. I...I...I knew she had checked into the Ft. Harrison. Det. Carrasquillo: So this was...after November 18th is when she checked in? Pasco: Right. This was probably within a week or so of her death. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. And you saw Lisa going for a swim one evening. Around what time? Pasco: It was like...well, usually the ceremony thing gets out about 10 or so. So it was about 10 or so. And she...she looked in pretty good shape...you know. We talked and she seemed like she was doing pretty decent. Det.Carrasquillo: Okay. That was a Friday night. Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: And it was about 10:00. How long was she out at the pool for? Do you know? Pasco: Well, she was there for a little while...I don't know...for 10 or 15 minutes. Then she went and got into the hot tub and got back out. And after a while she dried off and went back to her cabana. She...she was staying in one of those rooms. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you see her walk into the cabana? Pasco: Yeah. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Which cabana did she walk into? Pasco: I don't remember...I didn't see her go into the room but I...I saw her walk off in that direction. Det. Little: Did you speak to her? Page 6 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/ Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Pasco: Yeah, we...we spoke. Det. Little: You and your wife spoke with her for a while? Pasco: Yeah...yeah. Det. Little: Do you remember what you spoke about or...? Pasco: I just asked her how she was doing and she...you know...she seemed like she was doing pretty good. She looked in pretty good shape really. I was... Det. Little: Health and mentally? Pasco: Yeah... Det. Little: She was doing all right? Pasco: Yeah. Det. Carrasquillo: And she was out by the pool by herself? Pasco: Yeah, there was nobody with her. She was just taking a swim. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Pasco: And she said she was...she was...she did that. I...I asked her about that I think. And she said...you know...she was taking swims every night. It was kinda like recommended that she get some exercise and take it easy and so forth. Det. Carrasquillo: So she...do you remember if she was wearing a two piece or a one piece? Pasco: I think she was wearing a two piece actually. Det. Carrasquillo: Two piece? Pasco: Yeah. Det. Carrasquillo: And...and you said you spoke to her, so there's no doubt in your mind it wasn't somebody that looked like Lisa. This was actually Lisa. Pasco: Oh no, this was Lisa. I knew Lisa very well. Page 7 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Carrasquillo: And...and what did she tell you...again? Pasco: Well, I just asked her how she was doing and...you know...she said she was doing pretty well. And she looked pretty good...she looked pretty relaxed...more relaxed than I had seen her for a while because she...in...in the office a lot of times she was real...you know...there was a lot of stuff going on and so forth. And she seemed like she was pretty calm and relaxed. And she said that she was going for swims on a nightly basis and she...it was like kinda a little regiment she had gotten into. It was recommended that she relax and take it easy, so that's what she was doing. Det. Little: Can you relate that Friday to being the Friday after Thanksgiving or the next week? Pasco: I really couldn't pinpoint. I...I...I do recall that...that when I heard that she was...that she had died... Det. Little: Uh Huh. Pasco: I thought "I just saw her a week or two ago." It was like real recent...you know...it was like not too...not too long before she had died that I'd seen her. And I thought she looked...she looked like she was doing... Det. Carrasquillo: Pretty good. Pasco: Yeah. Det. Little: Was she with anybody at that time? Pasco: No, she was by herself taking a dip. Det. Little: Mallory...you're sure what you're describing...was it November of 95 as opposed to sometime during the summer? Pasco: I'm sure that it was close to when she died. Page 8 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300 / Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Little: All right. Det. Carrasquillo: Because we...specifically we're talking after her accident, right. That's what...I take it this conversation was after...November 18th was her accident. Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: And you knew she was at the hotel. Pasco: I knew she was at the hotel...right...yeah. Det. Carrasquillo: And it was a couple of weeks before you found out she had died when you had this contact? Pasco: Yeah. Det. Little: And during the period, she was on leave from work? Pasco: Yeah, she was...she...yeah...she'd actually been on leave for a while and she came back and then she went back on leave. Det. Carrasquillo: Correct. Pasco: This was during her second period. Det.Little: All right. Pasco: Yeah. Det. Little: After the accident. Pasco: Yeah, I..actually...actually I wasn't even privy to the accident...you know. I found about that later on. Det. Little: I see. Det. Carrasquillo: You said your wife was with you. What's...what's your wife's name? Pasco: Joan. Det. Carrasquillo: Did Joan have an occasion to also talk to Lisa? Pasco: Well, she was just there with me...I mean...she didn't know Lisa as well as I did. She'd just seen her a couple of times...you Page 9 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300 / Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 know...maybe a...like the few times we would go out to eat...all of us would go out to eat or something. That was about the only time she'd ever met Lisa. Det. Carrasquillo: Did Lisa come over to the table you were sitting at? Pasco: Uh...she was swimming in the pool and I just kinda...I don't remember if I approached her or she approached me. I think I kinda walked up to her. She was...she was there and we just talked. I mean she wasn't avoiding me or anything like that. I don't think she came up to me. I think I came up to her and approached her. Det. Carrasquillo: So your wife didn't hear the conversation. She just probably saw you talking to a lady. Pasco: Well, no. I think Joan was with me. I think we both walked over there and talked to her. Det. Carrasquillo: Anything else you can remember during that time frame that could be important that I haven't asked you about? Pasco: I know that when Lisa came back the first time...for the little while that she was back on the post, she was doing real well in terms of the amount of production she was getting done. She was...she was making a lot of sales and she was real good with the clients. I mean she...clients just loved her. She was a very sweet person. Everybody loved her...you know...when she was there. And that was the other thing about her. She...she...she seemed like she was really in control of things...that she was doing...doing really well. Oh...one other thing that I did want to...to mention that seemed pertinent to me because it's kinda like...it kinda like contradicts some of the stuff you read in the Page 10 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation DateofReport 4/1/97 paper...was that she had...there's...there's a state...it's kinda of a...like a...a milestone you might say in the Scientology counseling process called the state of clearing. Det. Carrasquillo: Uh Huh. Pasco: Maybe you've heard of this. And she had...not too long before this, she had...she had gone clear. At...at AMC when anybody has a big thing like that happen, we all get together and the person tells their...their wins...you know. And she was just doing excellently well at the time. It seemed...I was really...the whole thing just seemed like it was such a weird thing. It seemed like contradictory to everything that I had perceived about...about Lisa. Det. Carrasquillo: Well, that's why we're conducting an investigation because it doesn't...it's kinda weird...the circumstances surrounding it. But that's important that you saw her and we need to make that known. Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: Let...let me ask you this. You said your wife was with you when you walked up there and talked to Lisa. Pasco: I believe so. Det. Carrasquillo: Do...do you remember if they engaged in a conversation? Pasco: I don't think she said much directly to my wife. Well, she...she might have said "Hi" you know. She didn't really know my wife that well. Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know...well, let's not jump...let's go down the list here. Pasco: Okay. Page 11 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/ Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Carrasquillo: Did anybody give you an explanation as to why Lisa was not at the office during that second time frame when you...you ran into her at the Ft. Harrison? Pasco: Umm...no. I just...I think it was just...it was kinda like she'd had a relapse was the...was the general impression. There...there wasn't any statement...you know...official statement or anything like that...or any memo passed around or anything. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did...did you have any social contact with Lisa? Pasco: Other than what I've already described...no...you know...we went to...all of us went out to eat occasionally like after work or something but... Det. Carrasquillo: But that's work related. Pasco: Right. But nothing...nothing other than that. Det. Carrasquillo: I mean like you or your wife and yourself would go out to movies...? Pasco: No...no. Det. Carrasquillo: Dancing or come over to the house and things like that? Pasco: No, nothing like that. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Det. Little: Was she ever the focus of any discipline you know of at work or any problems like that? Pasco: Uh Uh. Det. Little: It didn't seem she would be the kind of person... Pasco: She was...she was like...at work -- when she was on post, she was very productive...extremely productive. Det. Little: A motivator. Page 12 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Dete of Report 4/1/97 Pasco: Right. She...you know...every...everybody knew so. It seemed like things went better when she was around...you know. She was really good at what she did. Det. Little: Were you ever at her apartment in Belleair? Pasco: No, I was not. Det. Little: Did you know she lived there? Pasco: No, I didn't know where she lived. Det. Little: All right. Thank you. Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know the circumstances surrounding Glora Cruz living with Lisa? Pasco: Umm....Gloria....I knew that Gloria was...I thought Gloria and T.C. lived together. That was my impression. I didn't know that she lived with Lisa. Det. Carrasquillo: When was your last contact with Lisa McPherson prior to her death? Pasco: That time I saw her around the pool. That was it. Det. Carrasquillo: How did you learn about Lisa's death and the circumstances surrounding same? Pasco: Umm...David Slaughter called us all into a meeting and told...told us what...what had happened. Det. Carrasquillo: Was there another David working at AMC at the time? Pasco: Another... Det. Carrasquillo: Besides David Slaughter. Pasco: Another David? Seems like there was another guy named David. When you mentioned it...when you said that, it kinda rang a bell but nothing specifically though. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Don't worry about it. Page 13 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation DateofReport 4/1/97 Pasco: Okay. Det. Little: Prior to you finding out about her death and the time...and after the time you saw her at the pool, did you...was anybody expressing any concern for her well-being at that time...about her physical condition or anything? Pasco: Well, no...the...the....since...since I didn't have any communication about it, I was a little bit anxious about it...you know...because...uh...as I said...she...when...when...the evidence that I had seen, it looked like she was doing real well. So there was something that I didn't...that I wasn't privy to about her condition that made me feel concerned for her. Det.Little: But her physical condition from the time you saw her...before she went into this isolation or her rest period at the Church, did it seem to be similar? Did she seem to be similar in physical condition to the time that you saw her at the pool? Any change? Pasco: Uh Uh. I'm not sure which...re...re-state that. Det. Little: Oh, I'm sorry. I just wondered...from the time you saw her before she went in isolation...her condition at that time... Pasco: Before she went into isolation... Det. Little: In comparison... Pasco: It was like... Det. Carrasquillo: Before November 18th. Pasco: Oh, okay. Det. Carrasquillo: Prior to November 18, 1995. Pasco: Okay. Uh...she seemed like she was in good shape to me. I mean she...she looked good...she dressed nicely...she...she seemed like she was very debouyant...that's a good word...in a Page 14 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 very...that's...that's the kind of character she was. She had a lot of effervescence about her. She was real... Det. Little: Gusto. Pasco: Yeah. I...I really liked her...she was very likable. Det. Little: And she was in that same demeanor... Pasco: Yeah. Det. Little: At the pool? Pasco: Well...no. When I saw her...when I saw her at the pool, she didn't seem quite as tough. I mean...but she seemed like she was kind of relaxed...more relaxed than I'd seen her. I mean she looked like she was kinda like more into herself but kinda content. Det. Little: Was she anymore reserved? Was she more reserved than...? Pasco: She seemed very friendly. Det. Little: Okay. Pasco: You know...very... Det. Carrasquillo: Probably didn't have the stress of work added on. Pasco: Yeah, that...that would...that would help delete any stress. Det. Carrasquillo: What was your understanding of the circumstances surrounding the death of Lisa McPherson? Pasco: My understanding was that she had...she had a...umm...an aneurysm in her leg that had somehow found it's way into her heart or her brain or something like that...just a freak thing. I mean this similar thing happened to my uncle, so I...it...it didn't seem totally beyond...I mean it seemed like something that could...see, I didn't know about this auto accident. I mean that kinda gave...shed some light on it...you know. ..because in an Page 15 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 auto accident you...you could possibly develop something like that and it'd go undetected. But that was what I was told...you know... Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Pasco: That's my understanding. Det. Carrasquillo: I know...I know you saw her sometime between November 18th and December 5th at the...at the pool. Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: At the Ft. Harrison on South...but did you have an occasion to go by there and care for her during that period? Pasco: Any care? Det. Carrsquillo: Yeah. Pasco: No. Det. Carrasquillo: Or do you know of anyone who did provide any care for her during that period? Pasco: No, I can't...I don't know... Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Have you ever heard of an introspection rundown? Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: Do you know what that is? Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: Can you explain it to me? Pasco: A...a little bit...I...I don't...I'm not a...I'm not a technical expert in this area, but I can tell you what my understanding of it is. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Please do. Pasco: Okay. Okay. Uh...a...a being...a person can get into a state of mind where they're looking inward too intently and they're...they're not able to extrovert...you know. And Page 16 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 they...they think and they worry about their...what's going on in their...in their mind...more than they do about what's going on in the universe. And the in-rundown is designed to alleviate the things that create that condition and get the person able to ex...extrovert. And that's all it's about. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So it's switching their focus from in...in...inner focus to outer focus? Pasco: Right...right. It's...it's...it's an unhealthy condition if you're...you know...looking inward all the time. Det. Carrasquillo: How long have you been a Scientologist? Pasco: Since 1968. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Then you've gone beyond clear? Pasco: Actually, I'm right...right around clear. I've got a couple...a...a...I'm kind of...yeah, that's about where I am. I'm...I'm...I went clear about 14 or 15 years ago but I haven't done much beyond that. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. So you took...there's several bridges you can take. You're working on the administrative side bridge or the personal bridge? Pasco: Well, right now umm...most of the stuff that I've done lately has been in the area of different types of...see, there's training and then there's processing. The processing is the personal counseling. Det. Carrasquillo: All right. Pasco: I've done more training lately than I have... Det. Carrasquillo: Processing. Pasco: Processing...yeah. Page 17 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 9529158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Carrasquillo: And you said you attended Lisa's ceremony to clear...right? Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Carrasquillo: Did she seem pretty happy to you at that point in time with no problems? Pasco: Very happy...extremely happy. It's a very up...you know...very uplifting kind of thing. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Well, did you...did you attend the N.A.I.L.B.A. Convention in Orlando? Pasco: No, I didn't go to N.A.I.L.B.A. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Do you know if Lisa had any emotional problems? Pasco: Umm...I didn't know about those...no. Those were related to me after the fact. Det. Carrasquillo: And you're not involved with the payroll at work, so you have no idea what Lisa was making or what kind of financial problems she had, if any? Pasco: Uh Uh. I wouldn't have had any knowledge of that. Det. Carrasquilo: Did...did she ever talk about financial problems that she might be incurring? Pasco: No. Det. Carrasquillo: Were you ever staff? Pasco: You mean in the... Det. Carrasquillo: In the Church. Pasco: In the church. Yes, I was. I was on staff at the...the organization in Washington, D.C. for about 7-1/2 years. Det. Carrasquillo: And...and what was your post or your hat? Page 18 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/ CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Did you re...write any reports regarding Lisa McPherson? Pasco: Did...did I read or write? Det. Carrasquillo: Did you write. Pasco: Okay. No, I did not. Det. Carrasquillo: You've never been directed to write a report about Lisa's behavior or even that incident when you saw her at the pool on the 18th...after the 18th of November? Pasco: No, that was just like a little social thing. Det. Carrasquillo: So there should be no reports in her file with your signature on them? Pasco: I would think not. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Jim, you have anything? Det. Little: Just a question maybe in line with that. But on an introspection rundown... Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Little: Could a person have some negative results from being...participating in a session like that? Pasco: If it's done standardly, then there would be no negative results. But if there are any negative results, there are correction lists that are done to handle them...uh...so... Det. Little: It's...it's recognizable then? Pasco: Right. Det. Little: When a person is having a problem. Pasco: Right...right. Det. Little: Could that be pretty traumatic to somebody? Pasco: The.. Det. Little: Of course they're dealing with individuals. Page 19 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Repoort 4/1/97 Pasco: Right. Det. Little: I understand that. Pasco: The...the truth of it is that I'm not technically trained enough to answer that question competently. But I can give you in a...in a general sense...umm...umm...any Scientology counseling...if it's...if it's messed up entirely...won't hurt the person ultimately. I mean it can be corrected. And if there are corrections to be done, it is you know...it would be standardly supervised...which all of it is. The...anything that's not done right in the first place can be fixed in...in a subsequent session. Det. Little: So you recognize the person that...that was in shock or having problems after a session? Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Little: For my own information, how would they be treated or tended to? Pasco: If they were in shock... Det. Little: If they were having trouble during an introspection rundown...if it were obvious some problems were developing... Pasco: Uh Huh. Det. Little: How would a counselor or the person doing...treating this person...how would they handle it...what would they do? Pasco: Okay. Det. Little: To help them. Pasco: In general, the way these correction lists work is they...they are a series of questions that are asked the person. The person...you've heard of an...an E-meter I'm sure... Det Little: Uh Huh. Page 20 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Pasco: And the person is holding the ends of the E-meter. So, as each question is asked...this...this is called an assessment...the question is asked...and as...as the question that has the emotional charge on it is asked, it will register and the person will mark down the reading. And there's a standard handling for that. They get the charge off of it... Det. Little: Right. Pasco: Which is just...involves asking the person some questions to look.. Det. Little: Like they...if they were having an emotional experience... Det. Carrasquillo: Let me interrupt you guys... Det. Little: Sure. Det. Carrasquillo: Flip the tape over so... Det. Little: Alright. Det. Carrasquillo: Don't lose your train of thought. Det. Little: Sure. SIDE TWO OF TAPE Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Side two. The time is 1315. I'm sorry...1515 hours...correct that. Det. Little: Okay. Mr. Pasco, I don't want to delay with this. It...it really was from my own...I was curious about this. Say a person were being counseled during a session...an introspection rundown...and they begin to say have a mental breakdown or experience some little mental difficulty, how would it be Page 21 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/ CONTINUATION FL0520300/ Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 handled? How would they be handled to help them? What would be done to help them? Pasco: Okay. See, that question is one that I...I really shouldn't attempt to answer because I'm not...I'm not technically trained to...there are a couple of things that I can think of that might be done, but you really have to ask...you know...somebody who is highly trained. Det. Carrasquillo: Let me ask you this. Have you ever participated in an introspection rundown? Pasco: Have I had one? I've never...I've never had a need for one. Det. Carrasquillo: No...no...participated...have you ever... Pasco: Oh...have I ever given one. Det. Carrasquillo: Yeah...been involved in one. Pasco: No, I'm not...I'm not that highly trained. I've done a little bit of training but not that kind... Det. Little: You know of anyone that's ever had a problem after a session like that? Pasco: No, I can't say that I do. Det. Little: Okay. I'm sorry...I just wanted to... Pasco: Okay. Det. Carrasquillo: Just...just one more thing. When...when you saw Lisa in the middle of...near the end of November or the beginning of December 1995, did she appear to you to be going through an introspection rundown at that time? Pasco: When I saw her around the pool? Det. Carrasquillo: Correct. Pasco: I couldn't have guessed one way or the other about that. Page 22 of 23
SUPPLEMENT/CONTINUATION FL0520300/Clearwater Police Department Report No. 95-29158 Offense Death Investigation Date of Report 4/1/97 Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. Anymore questions? Det. Little: Uh Uh. Det. Carrasquillo: Ron? Atty. Cacciatore: No. Det. Carrasquillo: Okay. The interview will be terminated at 1517 hours. Ofc. Reporting Det. J. Carrasquillo/elg ID No. 630 Case Status Active Date Cleared _____________ Clearance Type Exception Type 1. Arrest 1. Extradition declined - 3. Death of Offender Adult Juvenile 2. AR of primary offense, 4. V/W refused to cooperate 2. Exceptional secondary offense, 5. Prosecution declined 3. Unfounded w/o prosecution 6. Juv/No Custody Date 4/1/97 SA0 Info Page 23 of 23