BY MR. WEINBERG:
Q Let me show you what I've marked as Composite Exhibit Three, which are the documents that you produced pursuant to your subpoena today. (Witness reviewing documents)
MR. WEINBERG: That's the order; right?
MS CARLUCCI: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
MR. WEINBERG: All right, now, for the record, I'm just going to identify these.
This is a composite document. Dr. Davis turned them over this morning. The first document is a Report of Autopsy.
BY MR. WEINBERG:
Q On this document, if I can just share it with you, Doctor --
Q -- there is a post-it which says, "To Dr. Davis from Larry Bedore", and the document would indicate that it was faxed to you on December 23rd, 1996?
A At some point -- and I don't honestly recall the exact date, but it was in December of '96 -- there were, on two consecutive days, two phone calls to our office and I don't honestly recall -- I'm not sure whether this was sent initially and then the calls or vice versa. he might just have faxed this and then the calls came or --
Q Who were the calls from?
A From Dr. Wood with Larry Bedore in her office.
Q And what -- can you describe for us what took place in those calls?
A Well, one, they were initiated, as I think I said, by them; number two, to the best of my recollection, she said for me not to talk with anyone.
She expressed concern that this case and I had looked at that and I commented to her that I noted that she signed it, and I believe it was Mr. Bedore that said and -- something to the effect that I was also involved, and I pointed out that I had not had a
conversation with her from the time I left that office, except for a DNA meeting with occurred in St. Petersburg in which I passed her and said "hello" and those were the only words I had had.
I had not been consulted on the case and I didn't sign the case and I said as much.
And, in essence, Mr. Bedore alluded to my also being involved.
Well, I did the -- you know, I did the autopsy, but I didn't -- you know, I think I explained to you the level of my absence of knowledge as of the date that I left that office relative to the circumstances -- okay? -- so, I had -- I felt -MS. CARLUCCI: What was the conversation about?
THE WITNESS: Okay.
Okay, then she -- then I think it was the second day that she told me -- or on the second phone call, that's what I mean, which occurred the next day -- that she was sending me my personnel records and this also -- I mean, Mr. Bedore was in the room. I don't know who else may or may not have been in the room, but she frequently would have Mr. Bedore in the room when she was talking, and I believe he alluded to the fact that would I like to --
Well, first of all, I want to make a distinction.
She told me -- okay? -- she didn't say Do you want your personnel records? She said, I am sending you your personnel records, period -- okay? -- and I -- a little hard for me to figure that out. I mean, I had been over there employed for I don't know how long, but, regardless --
And then I believe it was Mr. Bedore who said, Would you also like to review the slides on Lisa McPherson? So I said, If you want to send them and you're going to send this -- you've decided you're going to send it, you can send them.
After that conversation, I tried to add the thing up and I just -- it just -- it didn't sound right, and I believe it was the next day that a FedEx thing came addressed to me; it was brought in by the secretaries at the front desk and was given to me and I put it in my office and I did not open it.
Okay. The office is locked at night. We have magnificent security in our building. I won't -- but it's beautiful.
What I'm saying is, the office -- okay -- and the entire building is -- I mean, you -- it's very secure.
Okay. Within the next couple of days -- and I don't recall exactly when -- I still had not opened this, and I took this and I discussed the case with Dr. Reeves -- Dr. Reeves is the chief here -- and I told him what had transpired, and he said, Fine.
He took the -- he took the package and he put it in his office and he put it in a locked drawer; that package was never opened.
So that, basically, is pretty much what I recall.
BY MR. WEINBERG:
Q Was there some more conversations with Dr. Wood after you put the package in the locked drawer?
Q Did you send the package back?
Q And was there some conversation with Dr. Wood about it getting back?
A My attorney handled the situation in cooperation with the office, including such things as, but perhaps not restricted to, conversation with Dr. Wood's attorney, making it very specific that, one, we were sending that package back unopened; two, we were not accepting or verifying or making any conclusions as to what was or was not present in the package, not knowing that; number three, that this was going to come back via courier, okay?
A courier came one evening around 6:00 and this guy -- you know, he was a regular cabbie, okay? He wasn't a courier, he was a cabbie, and this was the decision made, correct me if I'm wrong, I guess by Dr. Wood or her attorney -- I don't know -- anyway, but I'm sure he hadn't been through the third degree like he was there.
He had his picture taken. He had -- you know, they had him make a signature thing. They had a copy of his driver's license. They had him make a statement that, as far as he could see, it hadn't been opened and all this other stuff, and all this was videotaped.
Q The bottom line is, you eventually sent the stuff back; is that right?
A Yeah, I sent the thing back without touching it.
Q Through the cabbie.
Q Okay. Now let's go back to how this started, and it started by a series of phone calls from Dr. Davis.
A Excuse me?
Q I mean, from Dr. Wood, I apologize.
A Yeah, please do.
Q A series of phone calls from Dr. Wood to Dr. Davis; right?
Q And you said, first, that she expressed -- that is, Dr. Wood expressed that she had some concern about this case? Did she -- what did she -- can you articulate --
A She told me not to talk to anybody about the case; not to talk to any of the parties involved; not to talk to -- and then we went down the line -- not to talk to -- and this is in no particular order, because I don't recall the exact order -- okay -but not to talk to the police; not to talk to the paper; not to talk to the state's attorney; not to talk to the scientologists; not to talk to the family. Don't talk to anybody.
Q Did she say why?
A She said she was concerned about the case.
Q Did she say what her concern about the case was?
A She felt it was a very high profile case and could -- here again, I want you to understand this is paraphrasing.
Q I understand.
A Okay, I mean --
Q Your best recollection of the sum and substance of what she said.
A Yeah, okay.
Q High profile case and --
A Yeah, and controversial case.
Q Did she explain further what was high profile and what was controversial about it?
A She was worried -- Okay. I think she was concerned with regard to --
MS. CARLUCCI: Doctor, not what you think; what she said.
THE WITNESS: Okay. What she said? All right. I hate to do that.
She had recently bought a home and she told me this -- I mean, I knew she bought the home -- but she bought a home from the scientologists or from a person who was a scientologist. She was having her home scanned or debugged, or whatever the word is, to have some private guy go in and make sure there aren't any things around.
She advised me to do the same. I just -- I mean, I'm somewhat paranoid sometimes about some things, but, anyway, that's what she said. I think those were her concerns.
BY MR. WEINBERG:
Q Did she express any other -- did she make any other statements either in that conversation or in the following conversation about scientologists or scientology?
A Okay. First of all, I have had no other conversations with her.
Q Well, there were two that you described.
A Okay, I'm saying since then.
A She was -- she was I guess fearful and I guess she was concerned.
Q Well, did she make -- well, let me just say this --
Q -- until last December or when these articles appeared in the newspaper, I didn't know --
A Two things.
A There are two Decembers. Which December are you talking about?
Q Since December of 1996, when --
Q -- when the articles that are in this package of material that I'm about to show you, that you've turned over today, appeared in the newspaper, I didn't know scientology from a -- from anything else. I'd never represented anybody in scientology. I'm just here doing this case.
Q Obviously, there are a lot of implications from something where there is a criminal investigation in addition to a significant legal case; it's very important. It's important to Mr. Dandar and it's important to the Church of Scientology.
Q I know that, from what you've described, that you felt like you were put in a difficult position by these phone calls from Dr. Wood -- at least that's the sense of what I get from you -- but it really is important to us and to Mr. Dandar that you be as
depictive and complete as possible in your description of the best that you can recall that Dr. Wood and Mr. Bedore said in those calls as they relate to this case and scientology, all right?
Can you be -- you know , you've now described what she said about debugging the house. What else did she say in those conversations, or did Mr. Bedore say, that -- of significance?
A Okay. She said that scientologists were unpredictable and that there may be reason to have -- be fearful concerning them.
Q Fearful for your life, you mean?
A Just to be fear -- no, she didn't mention "life." She said just to be fearful concerning them.
Q Okay. What else did she say?
A To the best of my recollection, that's it. I want to perhaps -- I mean, I was not comfortable with having been called, okay? I'm not sitting there making notes -- okay? -- and I'm not trying to be -- I mean, I've told you what I recall.
Q This was an unusual conversation for you; is that correct?
A Yes, I think it's fair to say it's unusual.
Q Have you ever had the chief medical examiner call you and tell you not to discuss the case with the police?
Q Now I had asked you earlier, but I'll ask you again, in light of this conversation.
While you were in the medical examiner's office over in Pinellas County handling this case, or any other case for that matter, do you recall occasions where Dr. Wood or people in her office made comments regarding scientology or scientologists?
A I recall -- and again, you know, I don't recall the exact situation, but there was concern that if -- and I'm trying to think of the drug -- if there was a case where -- and the name escapes me now, but it's a common psychotherapeutic drug -- okay -if you follow me.
Okay. If that drug had been found by us -- okay? -- she was concerned that the press would know about it before we had issued a report, okay?
And again, I'm not saying that she personally enunciated these particular things, but it was -- I think there was concern that there may have been some manner in which this got out perhaps from our office. Q But did this relate to the Lisa McPherson case or --
A Oh, no, no,no. No, just generically.
Q But is it related to scientology?
Q In the conversations that you had with Dr. Wood in the December of 1996 time frame that you've just testified about, did she make any pejorative -- do you understand --
A Yeah, I understand.
Q -- comments about scientologists or scientology?
A I have described to you what she said. Now I think you can put that in your own frame and you can interpret -- okay, I'm sorry.
Q What was her and Mr. Bedore's -- how would you characterize the manner in which they were speaking to you? I mean, for example, were they -- I mean, was this --
A I think they felt that -- well --
Q How did you interpret it?
A I was uncomfortable with it. I didn't like it.
Q Did you feel threatened by them?
A By them? Did I think they would hurt me?
Q No. No. No. No. I didn't mean that.
You suggested that Mr. Bedore, before the first conversation, said "You're also involved."
Q Well, did you take that as some sort of warning or a threat or how did you take that?
A I didn't like it.
Q And why didn't you like it?
A Because I didn't sign the report.
Q Well, did you get the impression that they were trying to get you to sign off on whatever Dr. Wood had signed off on?
A As I -- to repeat, Mr. Bedore volunteered to send me the slides. He volunteered for me to make any changes and/or additions that I might with to on the report -- okay? -- and then I have these phone calls, and yes, I would interpret that as trying to get me involved.
Q Was there any particular issue with regard to the autopsy that they wanted you to focus on or they were focused on?
A Not that they enunciated.
Q Okay. Did they express why they were concerned about the autopsy; I mean, other than what you've said, which is "This is a high profile case." Was there something about it that concerned them?
Q Is this typical conduct for Joan Wood's office, this sort of thing that you've described?
A That's a hard question for me to answer, and -- I mean, a lot of things occur behind closed doors, you know, that I'm not privy to, and the way I envisioned myself and the way I worked there is that I had my cases, I did my cases and that's what I looked at.
I'm not a politician, see. If I had to live -- make a living as a politician, I'd be out on the street.
Q You'd be there with me.
Q You said that Dr. Wood told you that she was sending you your -- a copy of your personnel file.
A That's correct.
Q I take it no one's ever told you that they were sending you a copy of your personnel file before; is that right?
A That's correct. She also said she had been advised to do that.
A You're going to -- I'm not sure whether she said -- got specific of -- you know, I'm -- I'm just not sure, but she said -- she did say that she had been advised to send me my personnel file, number one; and number two, no, no one else has ever done that.
Q Is it -- whether you can remember the person's name, is it your impression that it was a lawyer that advised her? the police that advised her? I mean, what -
A I would think a lawyer.
Q Okay. Did you -- what did sending your personnel records by Dr. Wood have anything to do with the issue of the autopsy of Lisa McPherson?
A I can't put myself in her head and I really truly can't. I mean, that's a very difficult thing for someone to do.
Q I can concur with that.
A Well, I didn't -- okay.
Q I spent two days taking her deposition, Dr. Davis. I understand what you're talking about.
MR. DANDAR: Move to strike --
MS CARLUCCI: Do you know or do you not know?
MR. DANDAR: -- unresponsive.
MR. WEINBERG: Go ahead.
MR. DANDAR: Go ahead.
THE WITNESS: What was the question again? Repeat the question.
BY MR. WEINBERG:
Q What did sending your personnel records to you by Dr. Wood have to do with the issue regarding Lisa McPherson's autopsy?
A I don't know.
Q Did you feel that this was somehow pressure being applied to you? Is that how you took it?
A No. No, I didn't. I mean as far as I could see, I wasn't even -- I wasn't involved. I mean, I had been gone from that office for five months. I was no longer a member of that office. I had nothing to do with this case, okay? I had signed out -- okay? -- because I felt it and -- a moral --
Q "Signed out"; you mean left?
A No, I, morally -- Okay. When I left, there were -- and I tend to keep my cases tight and close -- okay? -- so I keep them relatively up-to-date. So I had signed out, because I felt it was right, some twenty-four cases; all of them from 1996, okay?
A Now then, relative to the staff, in particular, at -- between District Six and District Seven, we -- it was certainly a cooperative arrangement and I don't know whether I legally had to do that, but I felt that morally, I did, and I went ahead and signed them out.
I -- that's what I did.
Q Okay. But you didn't sign out the Lisa McPherson one.
Q And did you -- I know we've talked about this, but I just want to make sure, in light of the conversation with Dr. Wood -
A Okay. All right.
Q -- did you not sign it out because Dr. Wood wouldn't let you sign it out?
A Oh, no. No. No. No. Had nothing to do with that.
Q You had a file put together on Lisa McPherson?
Q Was there an office file on Lisa McPherson?
What are you talking about now? I mean, at what point in time are you talking about?
Q Over in the ME's office in Pinnelas County, is there some sort of file folder that would be the file folder for the Lisa McPherson autopsy?
A Well, there should be.
Q And what should be in that file folder?
A Oh, pretty standard things. The invest notes, say, from investigators, which follows chronologically what goes on.
A That would be your investigators or the police investigators?
A Our investigators.
The particulars on the case, such as the time that the case came in, how it was brought to us, the accessioning of the case -- in other words, giving it a particular number and designation -- those sorts of things; then, say, if there were clothing or if there were other things that came in with the body, these would be enumerated; these would be documented -- okay? and then the autopsy Protocol itself, once that was completed.
Once that was completed, if there were -- if it were a case that, say, was a legal case or a case in which the police were involved, if there were evidence that was turned over, what the evidence may have been; to whom it was turned over; their signature;
my signature, if it were my case -- okay? -- and that's called the Evidence Sheet; what special tests, if any, were ordered.
Q Slides? Histological slides?
A Well, it was up to me to make the slides -- okay? -- and I made the slides.
As for that being a part of -- well, that is -- that is part and parcel -- okay -- of a particular case. It can vary with the case from essentially having no slides -- okay -- to having a room full of slides. Q In this case, there were some slides.
A There were some slides, yeah.
Q And there was a -- they were slides, but they were also a paraffin block?
A Oh, yeah, that's where you get the slides.
A Make the slides off the paraffin blocks.
Q And then there were photographs?
Q And there would be what's called a tissue cup or something where some parts --
A Yeah, that's the gross tissues.
Q Okay. Was there anything else generally that would be at the medical examiner's office while you were there with regard to Lisa McPherson?
A Anything -- anything that would represent a suspicious death in which -- or a death in which the police were involved in any manner or form -- let's suppose there's an accident. The police get called to the accident, okay? They fill out a form and that's going to be present in there, you see?
Q Your notes of the autopsy should be there?
Q Was Prozac, by the way, the drug you were thinking of?
A Prozac, yeah.
A Yeah, it was.
MS CARLUCCI: Why don't you change --
MR. WEINBERG: Why don't you change your tape. I'm going down the hall for a second. This is a short second.
(WHEREUPON the proceedings were in recess from 12:11 p.m. until 12:14 p.m.)
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