From Wed Feb 02 14:15:48 2000 Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Brenda Hubert: Why are you hiding the truth about Lisa McPherson's death? From: Bob Minton <> Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:15:48 -0500

Brenda Hubert was asked by OSA to write a report about events in Lisa's life the last few days before Lisa was incarcerated at the Fort Harrison Hotel and tortured. On November 19, 1995, the day after Lisa was locked-up, Brenda Hubert submitted this report to the Church of Scientology's OSA:


I'd like to preface this with information about my relationship with Lisa. I have known Lisa for about 20 years. We were on staff together at the Celebrity Centre in Dallas for 6 years; we were roommates for over 3 years; we've worked together - first at Atlantic Financial Mortgage Co. and later here at AMC for over 7 years. I know her well.

This past week AMC Publishing was exhibiting at a trade convention in Orlando and 4 of the staff (Craig Burton, Brian Rakestraw, Lisa and myself.) were assigned to go to Orlando and spend 4 days working the trade show.

Lisa has been working on an ethics program for several weeks now. Her ethics terminal here at AMC has been Katie Chamberlain. Prior to us leaving for Orlando on Wednesday morning, Katie came to me and told me that Lisa was having some difficulty with her ethics cycle; that she was still mid-cycle on her O/W write-up and was frequently-dispersed and generally "in the middle of it". She wanted me to run tight 8C on Lisa at the trade show and product officer her to get the work done at the show. I wasn't given any other information specific to what her ethics program was but was asked not to let Lisa discuss it with me or let her "run on" about anything that could be remotely case-related.

In getting things together to get off on the road I noticed that Lisa was dispersed. She couldn't get her things together in an A to B way; I had to help her to make certain she had everything and that it was put in the car, She had a list of references that Katie wanted her to read and she was taking LRH books and dictionarys and tapes. She had a clipboard that she was constantly making notes on about the most mundane, routine details. She was obsessive about ''making a note'' about practically everything.

On the way to Orlando she was very frantic, she talked constantly and couldn't, recall what she had just said; frequently changed course in the middle of what she was saying and then asked me what she had been telling me. She seemed to be struggling with staying in PT and was writing everything down to remind her where she was and what she was supposed to do next.

In the time I have known Lisa she has needed orders and direction quite often to stay on track or at least she would invite orders and direction and someone else to tell her what to do despite the fact that it was very obvious to anyone who was around her that she is an extremely able thetan quite capable of running circles around just about anyone, My observation is that she played the ditzy blonde to gain attention and affection from others and to amuse people or just play a game with it to create an effect. The behavior I was observing in the car on the trip was a very exaggerated display of this same thing only there was an element of desperation and pain associated with it She definitely was struggling, was desperate and she was in pain as a being.


I made sure we stopped and that she was fed as she said she had not eaten. I inquired about sleep and she said she had not been sleeping well. She told me that she was getting up in the middle of the night and coming to the office and working and then going home and trying to sleep. She said she had been doing that for "a while now".. She said she had only had 3 or 4 hours sleep the night before. I got her to Take some B and E when we stopped to eat.

When we got to the convention she got even more frantic in her actions. She had forgotten several personal items and she tore apart her luggage looking for them and had her things strewn all over the room in total disarray. She got irrationally upset that she didn't have these items and it took me getting in her face and literally yelling at her to knock it off to subdue her behavior. That didn't last long, within a few minutes she was back at frantic again.

I put her to work and for a couple of hours she appeared to be "in control" or at, least "under control,,, I was watching her closely and it appeared to me that she was still struggling to keep herself going or to stay in PT.

I took her to get something else to eat and while we were in the restaurant she suddenly turned around and called out to one of the people working in the restaurant to come over to the table. She then proceeded to tell this restaurant employee that they HAD to read the Dianetics book and they had to do it NOW. It was a very off-the-wall type communication, to this person. The person was completely in mystery about what the hell she was talking about. I made some excuse and tried to make it appear to be a joke.

I took her back to the room and tried to get her to lay down and rest for a whale, but she could not stay in any one spot for more than 30 seconds. She was all over the place and just rattling on about this and that and stopping to correct herself or ask me what she had just said.

Later that night Craig, Brian, Lisa and I went to dinner in the hotel. During dinner she did a repeat performance of the earlier incident in the cafe. She called over one of the waiters and started in with him about reading the Dianetics book, it was not as "off the wall" as the earlier incident but was still totally out of place and inappropriate. Also during dinner we were having a conversation about one of my clients and the difficulties he was having with his business due to some new legislation that was implemented in his home state of New Jersey, Lisa yelled at me- (literally)- about what I was doing to handle the situation with my business and didn't I think it was necessary to let him know what the SPs were doing there? she wanted to know what I thought he would do if be REALLY knew who he was up against.

Craig, Brian and I were trying to change the subject and get her off this totally strange interrogation- she was out of control again.


After dinner I took her up to our room and made her go to bed at 9:30 as she looked exhausted. She went to sleep. I went to sleep. At about 11 p.m. I woke up to find her going through her luggage franticaIly and mumbling to herself.. I asked her what she was doing up. She said she was hungry and was going to go down to the snack bar to get some fruit and then that she was going to read some references. I told her she needed to get back in bed and get rest but couldn't get her to listen to me. She went to get the fruit. I fell asleep.

Some time later (about 2 a.m?) I was awakened again when she slammed the bedroom door. She was still up. I made her go to bed and stayed awake until I thought she was asleep. At about 4:30 she was up again rambling around; she finally went into the bathroom and was quiet. I fell asleep again. When I woke up at 7 a.m. I found her still in the bathroom reading LRH. She looked like hell.

This erratic behavior got worse during the day, Craig and Brian were reporting bizzare things to me about what she was saying and doing.. We all started sharing responsibility for watchIng her. Things like not knowing where she was, and asking where we were, where the door to the room was, how to get to the elevator.

That night we hosted a hospitality suite and had clients coming and going until 1 a.m. At about midnight I sent her to bed. When I finished up with the suite about 1 a.m. I found her sound asleep and thought perhaps she would sleep all night as we had had a very long day and she had slept so little the two nights before, I went to bed.

At 3 a.m, I woke up with a start and found her on top of me in my bed holding me down by the arms. She was right in my face and she was sobbing hysterically and telling me that I had to get up right then and get dressed; that there was something going on on this planet that I didn't know about and that we were in terrible danger; that I HAD TO HELP HER before it was all too late. I couldn't get her to calm down. She was ranting. Finally I shoved her off me and screamed at her to come to present time and knock it off. I told her I wasn't going to talk to her unless she calmed down and talked to me rationally. I had no idea what the hell to do with her -- I had no idea what was happening. I knew I was talking and no one was home and I did not know how to get her to come back home. I don't know what all was said or that it matters. She was going on and on about needing to be more responsible and that she had fucked up so badly that she couldn't make amends for it -- that she didn' t know 'how to do what was being asked of her. She told me that she was afraid that she was going to flip out again like she did earlier and she was trying to keep that from happening again but couldn't be that responsible. That we needed to save the world NOW.

Finally I got her back in bed and she fell asleep and slept until about 7:30 a.m. She was even more spaced on Friday. She walked to a girl that was at the convention and got right in her face and started in with her interrogation mock-up. She told this girl that she knew who she was and that she had to get her hat on. The girl had no idea what the hell she was talking about. Lisa just kept on with statements along those lines.


Brian, Craig and I decided that I had to bring her home on Friday as she was getting worse and worse, I got her things packed up and loaded us up and started home. She was totally bizzare in the car on the way home. She kept talking to me - just rambling and asking me what she had said. Anything I said, she said she didn't get it or didn't understand and ask me to say it again. She was very monotone. Then, she cried and cried but said nothing. Then she was totally sullen and withdrawn.

About, 10 minutes out of Clearwater she started interrogating me about a mutual friend and what I thought this person's out-ethics in life was and why wasn't I taking responsibility for doing something with this person. Then she started telling me about a Halloween party at Bennetta's house that she had gone to. She told me about doing her interrogation routine on a girl that was at the party that Lisa decided was her enemy and was somehow a threat to everyone at the party. She started getting off overts about that and then earlier overts. I couldn't get her to knock it off or quit talking about it.

I took her home. When I got her upstairs and situated I stopped to see what she was doing. She was just looking through her things and I asked her if she would promise to call Katie and let her know that she was back. She suddenly started talking to me and she was THERE and talking rationally. She told me that she wanted me to know that earlier in the spring when she flipped out that what had occurred was that when she went clear she withheld it and didn't want anyone to know. That she withheld it very very hard for a long time and that it crashed. She said she realized that being clear was something to share with others -- that it wasn't just for her and that from the auditing and handlings she got she came to see that and when that happened she was okay again. This was said very directly and very matter-of-factly. I just acknowledged her. I left her there with her promise that she would call Katie.

I want it known that the information I was given by Katie was that I was to heavily product officer Lisa and was to be relentless in having her knock off any behavior that was not appropriate to her post. I was told that she was just pretending to be incapable and need directions and orders and that I should not grant that any life or credence but should get in her face if necessary to get tier productive. My own observations of Lisa's behavior did not align with what I was told. I did what I was told to do. I did try to impinge on her by yelling at her a few times. I did tell her with force to knock it off. I did tell her that she was at risk of losing her job if she didn't straightened up and I didn't want that should operated on what I observed no matter what anyone else told me as I am afraid that, I might nave made this whole thing worse or further upset her and that was not what I wanted to have happen.


This is all I can recall. It you need other information or help from me, please let me know. You can reach me at AMC at 446-X during work hours or at home at 445-X.

I love Lisa and want to see this get handled. Please do everything you can for her.

Brenda Hubert